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why i dont like joseph campbell
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heres a link if you want to read it from the source and see the pictures
http://roguepriest.net/2011/07/04/why-i-dont-like-joseph-campbell/
heres the article itself - its not very long, just a few minutes to read
Often, that means people want to talk to me about Joseph Campbell. And every time, I cringe.
Who is Joseph Campbell
Some of you might not know this name (I won’t judge), so I’ll do my best to fill you in. Joseph Campbell was an author who wrote about world myth. He was an avid reader, traveled quite a bit, and knew his topic well. There’s no denying that Campbell digested a lot of myth in his day. Oh yeah, and Hollywood likes him.
Campbell’s writing focuses on finding universal patterns in myths from around the world. If you know much about the study of myth, this should already be setting off alarms for you. He was heavily influenced by Carl Jung, and decided that myths reflect universal archetypes in the human mind. He believed that all myths tell a single story. He called this the “monomyth.”
So What’s the Problem with JC?
I want to point out that I don’t hate Campbell. His personal philosophy was that people should pursue their passions. I’m down with that. It’s good stuff.
But there are a variety of problems with his work on mythology. Most of these aren’t new; they’ve been covered by plenty of scholars. Let’s get them out of the way quickly:
All myths don’t tell a single story. There are motifs common to some (not all) hero myths, but that doesn’t mean they have the same lesson or meaning behind them. When you decide on a pattern that you’re sure is right it’s easy to ignore stories that don’t fit or reinterpret stories that just kinda-sorta fit. That’s exactly what Campbell did.
The idea of a monomyth undermines what’s greatest about mythology. Myths carry a tremendous amount of cultural content. The entire worldview of a society, its values and highest aspirations, are encoded in myth. This value-content is unique to each culture’s mythology, and it’s what makes myth magical. Focusing on the things that are the same between all cultures means ignoring the heart of myth.
When you universalize myth, you don’t. Any attempt to define the universal story of myth will end up defining the author’s own personal bias. In Campbell’s case, he focused primarily on male mythic figures and stories that agreed with his own theosophical views. The monomyth he tells resonates strongly with Western audiences because it was written by a Westerner.
If any of this seems too nitpicky or academic, let me put it this way:
In the 1940s a white American man wrote about the sacred myths of other cultures. He decided he knew what they meant better than those cultures themselves did.
The problem with this should be self-evident.
Being an Actual Hero
Okay, so all those problems I just outlined? None of those are my beef with Joseph Campbell. If I twitched every time a white author said something ethnocentric, I’d need seizure medication to get near a library.
No, my problem with Campbell is simple: I want to be an actual hero.
You know, the kind where you do stuff that saves lives or makes people safer.
Campbell’s work doesn’t lend itself to that. Typically, when someone uses the monomyth to talk about living heroically, it goes something like this:
Hey, cool, there’s this story cycle that all heroic myths follow!
What if I took that narrative and applied it to my life?
Hmm, some events in my life kind of correspond to things in the narrative.
So if I re-imagine my life as following this monomyth….
…I’m a hero in my own story!
And that’s great. It’s a way for engineers, bus operators, sales VPs, moms and dads, doctors and teachers, and the guy at the coffee shop with the awesome teeth to feel good about themselves. It might also help them guide their choices, by providing a framework for making strong decisions.
I respect that.
But what it really boils down to is telling a story. And that is unlikely in the extreme to save lives.
Literature and Taking Action
Campbell’s approach pretty much guarantees that his work must follow this arc. When Campbell fell in love with Eastern religion, he didn’t set about mastering meditation and chanting practices. When he pursued the question of heroism, he didn’t train his body or confront dangerous challenges. In both cases, he began by reading stories.
Campbell’s approach was primarily literary. And by focusing on a universal myth, he marginalized all the details that root literature in actual experience: cultural customs, religious practices, historic figures, proverbs and mores. He chose to abstract away from a rich body of lore based on human experience and write a new story altogether.
There’s a value to this literary approach. Last month I tweeted asking why people like JC. Many people responded by saying he made mythology interesting. He’s the one who got them into mythology in the first place. He was definitely a popularizer of myth, and that’s pretty awesome.
The problem is that his name has become synonymous with heroism, and he says absolutely nothing meaningful about heroism.
A literary pattern is not heroism. Templating a narrative onto our own lives is not the tool by which heroes are made. An accountant who compares her college days to the “Belly of the Whale” stage of the monomyth is still an accountant. A father of three who views selling his house as the “Road of Trials” stage is still a father of three.
And I don’t want to disparage that. Accountants have saved my ass numerous times (thank you Tracy!). Dads do one of the most important jobs on earth, just like moms do.
But does that make them heroic?
When I think of becoming heroic, I think of the actions that actual heroes took that made them into what they were. These don’t correspond well with the stages of the monomyth that Campbell describes.
In the case of mythical heroes, receiving some kind of lengthy training seems prominent. Having actual skills is nice.
In the case of historic heroes (Che Guevara comes to mind), traveling widely is a recurring theme. Travel shows you a much wider section of the human condition. It gives you a deeper sense of what’s at stake when dads and accountants have no one to stand up for them.
In the monomyth, the literary hero is yanked into adventure by some greater force. In the real world, there is no call to adventure. If you see a chance to do something heroic and you refuse the call, nothing will pull you forward. Being a hero is not a destiny, it’s a choice—the choice to act when no one else will.
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What do you think? What does it mean to be heroic, and does Joseph Campbell’s writing help at all? Is it even important to be “heroic” in this day and age? And can it mean the same thing it did in ages past? I love seeing the discussion evolve. Comment and share your thoughts.
People are complicated.
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I can't help but feel though that the author is focusing on too narrow a definition of Hero. To him you can't be a hero unless you're a firefighter or a police officer or wear spandex and fly around New York. Those accountants may just save people from utter financial despair which could have caused them to commit suicide. We don't know. That father of three, who want's to bet that there are three people to whom he is a true and absolute hero. I just think it's a little narrow minded to say that they aren't heroes.
It just sounds like the author is upset because people are talking about it that don't live up to his standards. A lot of bad things happen when we impose our standards on other people.
Near the middle he was talking about Campbell ignoring the important parts of the myths, the differences. Well important is subjective. To Campbell the similarities were far more interesting because these cultures had no contact. For all of these people who had no contact to come up with so many similar stories is really really cool and that's what Campbell wanted to talk about. The world spends enough time focusing on people's differences. What Campbell wanted people to realize was that in spite of those differences we aren't actually all that different. That's where the monomyth came from.
I do get his frustration with it being applied to everything though. It's like when people say that all movies are exactly the same and then give the vaguest outline possible so that literally everything fits. Well of course every movie fits into "There's a person, there's a problem, person tries to overcome problem, may or may not succeed." That's not the point. Campbell was a bit more specific than that.
Like I said, interesting read. Thanks for posting. I always enjoy reading something that challenges my point of view without being rude about it.
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The monomyth he tells resonates strongly with Western audiences because it was written by a Westerner.
If any of this seems too nitpicky or academic, let me put it this way:
In the 1940s a white American man wrote about the sacred myths of other cultures. He decided he knew what they meant better than those cultures themselves did.
The problem with this should be self-evident.
Wow. That's quite silly.
So instead we should reject one of the most significant cultural studies up to that point in pre-civil-rights history, indeed, one which embodies a message of unity, of the similarity and fraternity of all peoples couched within a celebration of their diverse cultural traditions, because of the race of the author?
The problem with that should be equally self-evident.
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So the thing to consider might be its the temporal frame of reference being used to understand the effort to generate heroism. I think the concept of being a hero needs to be understood in terms of spiritual development, as in ones outlook to life as an ongoing thing - not some symbolic heroic gesture or idealized fantasy of heroic service. This way the individual can work towards maximising the realistic potential going forward as integral to character.
Sure, if you can do a career in emergency services like a firie, ambo, military or police then you'll get more heroic action, but those things come with the downsides of the sacrifice implicit with acts of heroism also and some people just are unable for various reasons to walk that path. To require a certain level of others or oneself to justify the commitment would seem a bit sectarian to me.
I've always just view J. Campbell as an academic (researcher & messenger) not a role model (teacher), so his literary focus seemed entirely acceptable to me. Such that his efforts are to serve as guidance for us to dive in and take want we want or need ourselves, rather then just following someone instructions. Looking for similarities in new content to know content is one fun way to approach new material and build up a viewpoint - the trick is, as the author pointed out, to be mindful of our ignorance and bias when approaching new content and not to rush to exert our embryonic view of the new, as the actual view or experience of being that new thing.
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"Campbell is like an aubergine. All by itself it's colourful, pretty . . . easy to digest, but, one needs to prepare it with other ingredients to make it tasty: Eliade, Durand, Krishnamurti - and other philosophies and ethnographies. It also takes practice (as with cooking) to spot myth in everyday life."
When the author of the blog states that his problem with Campbell is that "I want to be an actual hero" it becomes clear he's missed the point . . .
Also makes me think that such 'cooking instructions' might be helpful for those starting the IP - Campbell might not taste as good the first time you 'cook' it, as it does later on . . .
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In my understanding of Campbell's work it often makes more sense to substitute 'Hero' with 'Protagonist'. Not all mythological heroes acted 'heroically'. Some relied on cunning or a quick wit. Some also did downright evil stuff only to be redeemed in the end. And not all of them slayed dragons or rescued damsels. You do not have to be Captain America to be a protagonist. When you consider the 'Hero's Journey' this way, it becomes a journey that we can all take. Just because there have yet to be any Herculean tasks forced upon me, that doesn't mean that my experience of life is any more or less authentic and important. The point is, we have more in common with each other than we have differences. Any of us can be Hercules, Ghandi, Neo... or an accountant.
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Adder wrote: Sure, if you can do a career in emergency services like a firie, ambo, military or police then you'll get more heroic action, but those things come with the downsides of the sacrifice implicit with acts of heroism also and some people just are unable for various reasons to walk that path. To require a certain level of others or oneself to justify the commitment would seem a bit sectarian to me.
As someone who volunteers for the emergency services point of view, I can agree to this. Sure doing this is amazing thing to do, but it takes a toll, and it's not for everyone, the type of situations that you can come across in and deal with is extensive and in some cases mind numbing, and its really only for a select few of people. In the end your making a serious life altering impact on someone saving their life. You can still have that same impact providing canned food to someone who hasn't eaten in a week. There are many ways to do it, just because your not in a career of doing it doesn't mean that's the only way.
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What I disagree with is that "there is no call to adventure". Maybe not in the form that many myths take, but I definitely feel that my life has been an adventure ever since I met my master Mitth. That adventure, however, is mostly internal.
I agree with most of the rest of that article. Campbell's experience is limited to stories, and not so much the literal path that is life. I've read his books, listened to his speeches, and I love the guy. He's fascinating. But not much of what he taught is applicable.
Sorry TOTJO

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