Defending the Faith

I'm not talking about Jediism necessarily here (hence why this is in Open Discussion).

[The faith I am talking about is any specific religion.]

I've noticed that when I look at religious websites when I'm looking things up, some feel the need to have sections where they 'defend their faith'.

When Dawkin's published 'The God Delusion', a fair few people felt the need to post responses or even publish books defending their beliefs in the wake of his opinions.

Not to mention that there is apologist literature for many religions.

Do 'we' (any person with religion) really need to defend our faiths to people who don't agree? Is it a pointless effort or do you think there's value in it?

"Defend" suggests that our faith is under attack, which I don't think is the case and I don't think we should posture ourselves in that way. In the Creed it states I shall never seek so much "to be understood as to understand", so when we approach Jediism and the conversation that happens if/when we tell people we are Jedi, it should be with the goal of the mutual sharing of information. The openness that allows people you are speaking with to ask questions without feeling like they are being attacked and the safe space that allows you to answer them without having to be "on guard" as it were. Does that make sense?

Furthermore, the individual practice of Jediism is personal and unlike most mainstream religions we needn't proselytize, so we needn't feel compelled to share with everyone. There is a fair bit of ridicule associated with Jediism simply because of society's understanding of its roots. This is why I do not share my faith widely. At the same time, I don't feel any less authentic because I choose NOT to share my belief with people I don't believe will respect it.

In terms of how we can best share our faith, if that is ever the goal, I think the best way to share it would be by example. Living the life of a Jedi is the best testament we can have. I know for a fact that I have changed people's minds about Jediism because of the life that I live, because of the person that I am.

There is a thin line between holding your ground and enforcing opinions.

"Holding own ground", "defending own religion" - that is rightful and necessary. Everyone has a right to stand for truth in his public image. And the public image is important if religion wants to be established in society.

This thin line I mentioned is something like zone of your personal space in basketball - it is only the cylinder around the space you physically occupy.

What I am trying to say is that pr is legit for defense and not for propaganda.

In the wake of modern science (often at the forefront of such 'attacks'), a religion (or religion in general) is only questioned because it is a widespread belief (and one I agree with) that religion goes against the logical thought processes required in a modern reason-based society.

I think the Jedi religion is less so of a 'traditional' (read; Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc) religion in that there is no "supreme deity/being", and is more blended with ethical and moral frameworks. If Jediism remains open to ideas, change, and honest criticism, then there should be no need to defend, for there would be no transgression against our reason-based society. We only have to be willing to accept, even with a small amount of possible skepticism, those ideas which are backed up by empirical evidence, and reject those that are not.

Nothing motives people like having a common enemy to rally against.

But, really I prefer to discuss rather than defend.

Fenton wrote: In the wake of modern science (often at the forefront of such 'attacks'), a religion (or religion in general) is only questioned because it is a widespread belief (and one I agree with) that religion goes against the logical thought processes required in a modern reason-based society.

Can you walk us through the rationale of this belief?

Fenton wrote: I think the Jedi religion is less so of a 'traditional' (read; Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc) religion in that there is no "supreme deity/being", and is more blended with ethical and moral frameworks. If Jediism remains open to ideas, change, and honest criticism, then there should be no need to defend, for there would be no transgression against our reason-based society. We only have to be willing to accept, even with a small amount of possible skepticism, those ideas which are backed up by empirical evidence, and reject those that are not.

Actually, that's really very traditional.

steamboat28 wrote:

Fenton wrote: I think the Jedi religion is less so of a 'traditional' (read; Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc) religion in that there is no "supreme deity/being", and is more blended with ethical and moral frameworks. If Jediism remains open to ideas, change, and honest criticism, then there should be no need to defend, for there would be no transgression against our reason-based society. We only have to be willing to accept, even with a small amount of possible skepticism, those ideas which are backed up by empirical evidence, and reject those that are not.

Actually, that's really very traditional.

Really?

I always think of the cavemen, praying to their gods of thunder, trees, and animals... And I have to imagine that they also imagined a 'mother(Mother Nature?)/father' of all that...

I think removing the deity is actually a newer (in terms of humans) idea...

But, I could be wrong...

Fenton wrote: We only have to be willing to accept, even with a small amount of possible skepticism, those ideas which are backed up by empirical evidence, and reject those that are not.

I am actually working on this at the moment...

I started with this quote from the Dalia Lama, : "Likewise, Buddhism must accept the facts— whether found by science or found by contemplative insights. If, when we investigate something , we find there is reason and proof for it, we must acknowledge that as reality— even if it is in contradiction with a literal scriptural explanation that has held sway for many centuries or with a deeply held opinion or view." Dalai Lama (2005-09-13). The Universe in a Single Atom: The Convergence of Science and Spirituality (Kindle Locations 259-261). Crown Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

The "defending" comes from the "attack"...

Recently, there was some unsavory-ness on Reddit, in the Jediism forum... It has since been deleted by the Mod, who then left the mod position... I am now the mod...

A person (troll by my definition) came in and aggressively questioned several people... Including the Mod, all of whom attempted to "defend" and explain to the troll, er, person, the various ins and outs of being a Jedi...

My answer, like it would be in real life to a person attacking me, was to say, "well, you are right, and entitled to your opinion", or something like that...

A "troll" is not there to listen, or learn, but rather to get their point out... Show how they are right, and everyone else is wrong...

That is a good troll... A bad troll is just there to scream how "everyone there is gay, that they are screwing my mother, and that I live in her basment while this is going on"...:lol:...

However, the troll did not like that, and accused me of being a bad jedi... :lol: which really made me laugh, cause, like I have something to prove to a internet bully, :lol:...

What a joke she was....

i think the cognitive dissonance many people experience about the cave man it to view his conclusions from the lenses of our own understanding

the natural reflexive action at that statement is to say "no not me i understand"

the cave man was far more the consumate scientist of his day than pretty much any of us are now

we can wax eloquent on philosophical nothings and pursue fishing or martial arts as hobbies
cave man had very little theway philosophical nothi gs

his science was his rigion and his religon was his science
because he had little seperation between the functional and the intellectual aspects of his belifs

his religion was one of direct experience and obsevation

there is no way anyone can attack my religion

someone may attack ME
or attempt to destroy the books or the internet forums i use to share my religion

but i personally do not feel threatened by anyone elses views about anything
and rarely offended

i look at beligerent offensive people as being children who cant stop laughing at poopy jokes

i dont find the joke itself funny
but i admit that i often enjoy the heck out of belligerent offensive people

i suppose they are my own version of a poopy joke

i do take responsibity for expressing ideas that have helped shape my own perspective
and if someone is able to present a counter to something that i value i accept the opportunity to explore that dialogue so the greatest possible level of understanding is reached at least for myself

if my ideas or views are good, putting them out there is all that is necessary, others will recognise