"Punch in the nose" says Pope Francis...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30835625

The Pope is defending the dignity of his beliefs. There is an admirability to that. But, doesn't it seem a little... proud? He obviously has a very strong spiritual sense of compassion. But, it's possible that he's fallen victim to the very tenets his religion gives out. Yes, the Bible tells us to be compassionate and to love. Jesus wasn't afraid to flip tables at the first sign of blasphemy. He was violent in his own way at times. He called people out on their crap. I think the Pope is embodying a similar stance. He may be filled with compassion, but he believes in righteous anger.

We have had that argument in the Community too. Is purposeful, righteous anger different than mindless anger? Is it acceptable to the Jedi Path?

I don't have answers to those questions. But, it could be interesting to explore from both a Jediist and/or Christian point of view.

Theres a lot of ways a person could take this
im not likely to hunt down the whole interview to try and judge what his level of understanding is when he says this

But i will say its a statement easy to see much negativity in

its true that there are consequences for everything
and many people take their religion very seriously
very few people have the perspective to see an intentional and direct insult to their religion an not feel insulted by it to the extent that it inslires in them the need to defend it personally

and so i agree with saying and doing whatever you want to say or do

but one should learn from consequences
that everything will have consequences

but my idea of freedom is that you only protect freedom
when you protect the freedoms of those who use it poorly
most especially free speech

which includes the pope too
good times

The point I took away is "your freedom doesn't take away from mine"...

You insult my mother, and I feel its right to punch you, that's me exercising my right to respond to you....

Conversely, if you don't like the possibility that I might exercise my rights, and would like me to temper them, perhaps you should consider how you exercise your freedoms as well...

You make fun of my religion, and I decide killing is the appropriate response, who are you to tell me I'm wrong?

I'm not saying the response see are proportionate, to me, but evidently, to those who kill in the name of their god, evidently, it is...

So, if we would not that form of a response, perhaps we should consider our actions more thoroughly...

http://youtu.be/hdvBYiwta5U

Jesus whipped some people too or threatened them with a whip. at least in this one video i'm trying to relocate.

there used to be a video of Jesus in the temple with the move get out the way song by Ludacris. not sure if that language is inappropriate or not.

this is it, but you may want to view it outside the temple, it has potentially offensive language, however, it best illustrates Jesus going buckwild.

video has female dog word in it

You make fun of my religion, and I decide killing is the appropriate response, who are you to tell me I'm wrong?

Isn't this, in a way, cultural relativism? And, a fallacy.
(Source: Cook, John 1978 "Cultural Relativism as an Ethnocentric Notion," in The Philosophy of Society)

While it's appropriate to look at ethics vis a vis the culture they come from (Doctrinal source: 'Jedi Believe in the ethic of reciprocity, and how moral concepts are not absolute but vary by culture, religion and over time.'), I wonder if there is any level of absolutism at all.

If violence becomes an appropriate response, can Jedi condone that?
(Creed source: Where there is hatred I shall bring love;)

Could there be a violence without hatred? Can there be compassionate violence?

there can definitely be compassionate violence, and in days gone by it was much more common. i believe in absolutes.

i think stoning a woman for looking at a man is wrong whatever culture you are in.

also stoning people for being perceived as homosexual or a witch is also wrong no matter what culture you are in.

love thy neighbor as thyself. solves a lot of it for me. as long as what you do does not hurt others then............i'm getting tired so i may not be that clear. sorry.

ofcourse, this is my human(non alien) opinion, and i must confess that i am prone to be incorrect and i presently lack omni-science.

ghost dog wrote: there can definitely be compassionate violence,
i think stoning a woman for looking at a man is wrong whatever culture you are in.

...
as long as what you do does not hurt others then............i'm getting tired so i may not be that clear. sorry.

Just pointing out that I think you've contradicted yourself here. Are you saying you think there's violence that does not hurt people?

there is violence that ends the hurt. violence that ends suffering. putting out of misery. assisted suicide. putting down animals. it has become taboo in many of today's societies while not that long ago it was not taboo.

and those parameters can get sketchy so.................., but times change too.

Connor L. wrote:

You make fun of my religion, and I decide killing is the appropriate response, who are you to tell me I'm wrong?

Isn't this, in a way, cultural relativism? And, a fallacy.
(Source: Cook, John 1978 "Cultural Relativism as an Ethnocentric Notion," in The Philosophy of Society)

While it's appropriate to look at ethics vis a vis the culture they come from (Doctrinal source: 'Jedi Believe in the ethic of reciprocity, and how moral concepts are not absolute but vary by culture, religion and over time.'), I wonder if there is any level of absolutism at all.

If violence becomes an appropriate response, can Jedi condone that?
(Creed source: Where there is hatred I shall bring love;)

Could there be a violence without hatred? Can there be compassionate violence?

this is such a really great question
violence without hatred yes for sure
i can attest from experience that it is possible to engage in violence without any hatred whatsoever

i want to say that hate and ruthlessness are not the same thing
not in the way that i am speaking of them
to be ruthless is to be without pity
that is not the same as being cruel
to be cruel is to enjoy the experience inflicting pain
or to inflict pain beyond neccessity

i will give a hypothetical which is very much in the realm of possibility for a jedi

lets say you had a task which kept you somewhere late
as you walk to where your car is parked you see some kind of struggle

you approach and see a fit muscular man
he has someone held against YOUR car and be is striking them repeatedly
all to say about the victim is that they are clearly terrified
and begging to please not be hurt

it may be that your compassion level is such that your body reacts on its own
you rush forward and yell "stop!"
and "without thinking" you also grab the attcker and pull him away
let us say that you are compassionate and all you do is swing him away from you
because even though it is clear he was excessive
you are jedi and not excessive
and your only aim was to stop the violence

let us say that this person does not slow his violence in any way
but that when you touched him he directed it to you
let us say that he moved so quickly from the moment of you pushing him away
to the moment of him attacking you
that "before you knew it" he had grabbed your collar or your shirt with one hand and was punching you with the other
lets say he actually got two or three punches before your brain properly CLICKED to the development

Now your brain is fully engaged because the immediacy and the intensity are directed towrds you
there are no more "before you know it" moments
your combination of training and mental clarity have now fully activated and your mind processes everything in one complete CLICK
you realise the man was holding a knife the entire time
your training taught you to be aware of this sort of thing (which is why youre aware of it now) but your life experience has never put you in this type of moment "for real"
your compassion had commanded your body into action and had also tempered that action with restraint
which was appropriate
but now you understand that you have been stabbed multiple times
and this man is still stabbing
theres no way to know just how serious your injuries are but you know that without immediate medical attention you may die for your compassion

let us say that because of your training you know a technique where if a man is attacking youwith a knife in a certain way
that you put the knife into his heart and that this is what happens

---

this is an extreme story
most likely none of us will experience this
but very likely one of us will fave SOME deadly situation some time in our lives
and the example above is about as clear cut as such things can be
most of the time its not clear cut but this is for illustrative purposes

at no time does the "you" in the story have any moment of hate
even when taking the others life this was propelled by fear but guided controled by training
and your act was DELIBERATE
and ruthless
but it was not hateful

I hope it is not irresponsible of me to share this story
i will say that if a person uses theoreticals of extremes in order to enjoy the experience of violent fantasies it becomes good to focus ones psyche on how to be a powerful enough person that they feel no compulsion to take others power away

Real power does not lower itself to the pettiness of needing to make someone else lose