The views on Lesbians, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender

Another way to look at it... who would you want next to you when the proverbial "crap" hits the fan? I would want other Jedi. I don't care who you slept next to last night. We are like minded and united in the Force, and we have similar goals and aspirations. Once the Zombie Apocalypse or whatever catastrophe has been dealt with, we can all go back to being the individuals we are knowing that together we are Jedi and we pretty much kick ass.

Who knows what I will find attractive in the future? Why must I decide at all? Can I not decide what I find attractive WHEN I"M FINDING IT ATTRACTIVE? I refuse to make up rules for myself that serve no purpose but to alienate others and restrict my growth.

I identified myself as Bi in the past because its the closest reflection of my sexual experiences, not because I feel the need to join a club. I don't have anything to prove in this area. Maybe others do, but I'm thinking its a need I don't have and thus don't understand fully or well.

Generally if someone is anti-LGBT it is because they either adhere to a religion that could be interpreted as being anti-LGBT or are/have been part of a society that is influenced by one or more such religion(s).

Now as far as I am aware there is nothing in the TOTJO doctrine that could possibly be construed as being anti-LGBT. So, it does always bemuse me slightly that the question even gets asked (it's a recurring topic around here). Without some kind of holy scripture that says "and it was decreed by the divine power in the universe that a man shall marry a woman and shall be unclean for a hundred zillion years if he lies with another man or dresses in women's clothing" I can't see how anyone could find any kind of justification for thinking/claiming that LGBT members would be unwelcome in the Jedi community.

I would genuinely be interested to hear the thoughts of anyone who is anti-LGBT for non-religious reasons. I can't really understand how it would be possible. It can't be claimed that it's important for every single person to reproduce as parts of our world are already suffering from overpopulation. And it certainly can't be claimed that it's just completely unnatural if you look at the list that Brenna posted.

Same-sex marriage is a different issue and I find it easier to understand why some people are opposed to it, as for many people it involves redefining a word/concept that they have always previously understood to mean something very specific. Jediism doesn't oppose it but I can see why individual Jedi might. I love this quote though:

Kaverael wrote: "Same sex marriage used to mean that you got married, and had the same sex, over....and over....and over, again" Blake Shelton

:laugh:

Brenna wrote: Incomplete list of creatures known to be causing universal Force unbalance by displaying homosexual behavior.

Bison
Brown Bear
Brown Rat
Cavy
Caribou
Cat
Cattle
Chimpanzee
Common Dolphin
Common Marmoset
Dog
Elephant
Fox
Giraffe
Goat
Horse
Human
Koala
Lion
Orca
Raccoon
Humans
Barn Owl
Chicken
Common Gull
Emu
King Penguin
Mallard
Raven
Seagull
Amazon molly
Bennett
Blackstripe topminnow
Bluegill Sunfish
Char
Grayling
European Bitterling
Green swordtail
Guiana leaffish
Houting Whitefish
Jewel Fish
Least Darter (Microperca punctulata)
Mouthbreeding Fish
Salmon
Southern platyfish
Ten-spined stickleback
Three-spined stickleback
Anole
Bearded Dragon
Broad-headed Skink
Checkered Whiptail Lizard
Chihuahuan Spotted Whiptail Lizard
Common Ameiva
Common Garter Snake
Cuban Green Anole
Desert Grassland Whiptail Lizard
Desert Tortoise
Fence Lizard
Five-lined Skink
Gopher (Pine) Snake
Green Anole
Inagua Curlytail Lizard
Jamaican Giant Anole
Laredo Striped Whiptail Lizard
Largehead Anole
Mourning Gecko
Plateau Striped Whiptail Lizard
Red Diamond Rattlesnake


Hmmm, Maybe that Wesbro guy was right. Maybe homosexuality is the cause of climate change and natural disasters.

... and ponies !

Those are the ones we've gotten to so far. Haven't you read your copy of the Gay Agenda ? It is right there, Objective 66 : Cause next planetary mass extinction

How could you have missed that ? :huh:


:lol:

Arcade wrote:

ren wrote: careful there, the people who demand equality usually don't like distributing it. just like poor people and taxes

As much as I've tried, it's unlikely that I will ever understand your point of view when it comes to your opinions on minorities and sexuality. Perhaps in your next life you'll come back as a poor lesbian woman of color. I think that's the only way you'd recognize how ridiculous some of your remarks sound.

It was an observation. I do indeed find it ridiculous when some minor christian protesters agaisnt gay marriage end up getting beaten up by the police without too many complaints from the "other side", or how the people who constantly support others getting higher rate taxes always moan about having to pay their own.

A general observation about human behaviour really: happy receivers, unhappy givers. hence the warning to Senan 's "annoy everyone equally" commendable yet dangerous goal.

It is you new bible-bashing jedi who are quite ridiculous. How cheap. well, no I can't be a poor black woman. or a lesbian.
But when I say I'm not homosexual, it's because I've actually "tried" it. i don't recall having problems with my lesbian friends or family members either. In fact I think the biggest row I've ever had with a honmosexual was with Mark, here at totjo. And believe it or not, it had absolutely nothing to do with his sexuality.
And I'm reasonably wealthy and european, but also an immigrant and was nearly homeless once. Now I help people get/keep a home(and this without the help of a tax exempt organization) Oh and dare I say it? Married a penniless black african. older too. Gave me a disabled kid, and still I have yet to start thinking about coping out on her.
And and my daytime job is stay at home dad.

I'm not sure too many people here, if anyone at all, can say the same.
So please, indulge me. Make further suggestions as to how I could increase my understanding of racial relations, gender roles, poverty, and sexuality.

:laugh:

Kaverael wrote: on a lighter note - "Same sex marriage used to mean that you got married, and had the same sex, over....and over....and over, again" Blake Shelton

My personal view is that it is none of my business how someone else sees themselves, or who they want to be with to be happy. Two of my best friends are a lesbian couple, and I knew them both before they started dating. One was angry and miserable, the other was sad and miserable, but once they got together, they both blossomed into the most ecstatically, happy people I have ever met. There is no way you can look at these two and find some reason that their marriage is wrong, I don't care how you wish to interpret the Bible.

To say to someone "Gay is wrong and straight is right" is like saying "Catholic is right and Protestant is wrong", or Jediism is wrong because it is a figment of George Lucas' imagination, and not a real religion. We each have our own journey to follow, and it is not for someone else to tell us how to make that journey.

Stupid comparison but good point

ren wrote: So please, indulge me. Make further suggestions as to how I could increase my understanding of racial relations, gender roles, poverty, and sexuality.

I'm sorry to have upset you, ren. I sent you a PM and am open to discussing this further in private.

You haven't upset me. I was merely showing that my walk isn't in the opposite direction of my talk.


He told me in a PM however that "homosexual" is considered rude in the US because it's being used by some anti-homo groups. Second explanation is that it refers to sexuality and not culture. I guess it sucks if you want to talk about sexuality and not culture lol. Or if you don't want your sexuality to be associated with any particular culture, or worse, be seen as some kind of fashion thing...
Dunno what's the funniest: that people care about how their opponents refer to them, or that it's rude to associate your sexuality with a word that most adequately refers to that sexuality :silly:

These are the Wikipedia excerpts I sent to ren for anyone interested.

[hr] 1 : "Many modern style guides in the U.S. recommend against using homosexual as a noun, instead using gay man or lesbian. Similarly, some recommend completely avoiding usage of homosexual as it has a negative, clinical history and because the word only refers to one's sexual behavior (as opposed to romantic feelings) and thus it has a negative connotation."

2 : "Same-sex oriented people seldom apply these terms to themselves, and public officials and agencies often avoid them. For instance, the Safe Schools Coalition of Washington's Glossary for School Employees advises that gay is the 'preferred synonym for homosexual', and goes on to advise avoiding the term homosexual as it is 'clinical, distancing and archaic':

Sometimes appropriate in referring to behavior (although same-sex is the preferred adjective). When referring to people, as opposed to behavior, 'homosexual' is considered derogatory and the terms 'gay' and 'lesbian' are preferred. Homosexual places emphasis on sexuality and is to be avoided when describing a person. 'Gay' man or lesbian are the preferred nouns which stress cultural and social matters over sex."[hr]
I think what ren said about the term homosexual being used primarily by anti-gay groups/organizations/churches is accurate, too. That's probably the main reason I avoid it.