Here's my issue...

To all those who think I'm a suck up and a brown-noser simply because I happen to be apprenticed to a member of the council...

Just because I tend to argue in their favor doesn't mean I agree with everything that happens around here. I simply respect them and the work they do enough to not make an issue of it. I know they are all good people and have the best interests of the members here and the temple itself at heart. So why would I worry about little issues, that when you come right down to it, are not going to make a HUGE difference to me in my life or as a Jedi? These little issues are not going to lessen who I am or effect the Jedi I am capable of being. Only I can do that!

Does that mean I keep quiet about it?

Hell no... I am constantly raising my "issues" with Master Damion. I have spoken to him about complaints, concerns and ideas I have (and I can't see how he's not sick of it yet). I just don't see the point in publicly whinging and complaining about it, when all that does is create tension and upset for other members as well. I understand some people need attention for their "issues", but I am not one of them. I find it far more effective when I take the time to consider my "issues", really think them through, and then discuss them when I can be part of the solution rather than being part of the problem. If that makes me a suck up and a brown-noser, then well... I guess I am and it really doesn't bother me that you think so.

To those who believe that I somehow have more pull with the council just because I'm apprenticed to a council member...

Well you're just plain old wrong... and honestly I have no clue where you got that ridiculous idea in your head, and I would appreciate the snide comments about it being stopped cause it's getting really old and annoying as hell.

If you're so concerned about whether or not I might be getting some special treatment or privy to some inside information, why don't you ask my master or one of the other council members about it? I'm sure they can tell you that it's not true at all... and I'm sure they'll be surprised after reading this that anyone had even considered that possibility (or maybe they won't...)

Apparently I've been gone far too long cause I have no idea what's going on, and I thought I used to be in the clique, damn, lol

Naya wrote: To those who believe that I somehow have more pull with the council just because I'm apprenticed to a council member...

Well you're just plain old wrong... and honestly I have no clue where you got that ridiculous idea in your head, and I would appreciate the snide comments about it being stopped cause it's getting really old and annoying as hell.

If you're so concerned about whether or not I might be getting some special treatment or privy to some inside information, why don't you ask my master or one of the other council members about it? I'm sure they can tell you that it's not true at all... and I'm sure they'll be surprised after reading this that anyone had even considered that possibility (or maybe they won't...)

I thanked Zenchi's post because I have no idea what this is all about either :huh: lol.

Perhaps whichever parties are involved should have a chat via pm to discuss this apparent misunderstanding.

Akkarin wrote: Perhaps whichever parties are involved should have a chat via pm to discuss this apparent misunderstanding.

Well chatting with me won't help... we've been there and done that. LOL

To be honest, I don't care what people think... I just want the accusations and snide comments towards me to stop. And if they do have issues with it well then talk to someone about it.

The thing is, Naya -- we don't know what any of this is about ...

Who is making comments and/or accusations ? :huh:

I am as clueless to this as other members in the thread.

What goes on here...... :huh:

Meh people have always made comments and accusations. I've had my fair share (and that's the ones I knew about).

Naya wrote: I just don't see the point in publicly whinging and complaining about it, when all that does is create tension and upset for other members as well. I understand some people need attention for their "issues", but I am not one of them. I find it far more effective when I take the time to consider my "issues", really think them through, and then discuss them when I can be part of the solution rather than being part of the problem.

Someone doesn't necessarily have to have an alternate solution in mind when bringing up a problem. Does it help? Yes. That doesn't mean it's required of them. And some of us have lots of solutions, and are either keeping them to ourselves until we complete the work on them to show they'll work, or have suggested them only to be shot down for reasons that make little sense to us. Don't judge someone's "solutions" by the problems they raise. Judge the solutions on their own merit.

In addition "publicly whinging and complaining" happens because these are public issues. There are very few non-personal issues that crop up within the Temple that shouldn't be handled in a public manner, because most of them are issues that affect the entire membership on some level. If this "public whinging" continues, it's because there are so many posters on this forum, and so little acknowledgement that the issues have been "heard", that it comes up again. Nobody's trying to rush Council to solve problems; they have their own lives, very busy ones, and give a lot to this Temple and the people who belong to it. But if someone raises an issue, and it goes without so much as an "i see your complaint. we might discuss it," it's easy to believe that you weren't heard.

Furthermore, some of us would much rather be "part of the problem" in this way, than being an actual part of the problem by not thinking about the legacy TOTJO is creating, or the novices coming after us who'll be affected by these decisions. Paint me a troublemaker if you want, but I'm doing it because I want to see this place be the most respected, legitimate, well-thought-of Jedi group from the outside and the most effective from the inside. And if people have problems with that motivation, rather than my methods, I may well be in the wrong damn place.

I honestly have no idea what this is about either. Obviously I'm not involved in any of it... but I am confused though... there is talk of "not caring what they think", and things that "don't matter"... so I guess I'm lost on the point of this thread. :huh:

steamboat28 wrote: In addition "publicly whinging and complaining" happens because these are public issues. There are very few non-personal issues that crop up within the Temple that shouldn't be handled in a public manner, because most of them are issues that affect the entire membership on some level. If this "public whinging" continues, it's because there are so many posters on this forum, and so little acknowledgement that the issues have been "heard", that it comes up again. Nobody's trying to rush Council to solve problems; they have their own lives, very busy ones, and give a lot to this Temple and the people who belong to it. But if someone raises an issue, and it goes without so much as an "i see your complaint. we might discuss it," it's easy to believe that you weren't heard.

Furthermore, some of us would much rather be "part of the problem" in this way, than being an actual part of the problem by not thinking about the legacy TOTJO is creating, or the novices coming after us who'll be affected by these decisions. Paint me a troublemaker if you want, but I'm doing it because I want to see this place be the most respected, legitimate, well-thought-of Jedi group from the outside and the most effective from the inside. And if people have problems with that motivation, rather than my methods, I may well be in the wrong damn place.

Well, 'bitching to be bitching doenst solve anything either, lol...

And I am pretty sure that is the point of her statement, " publicly whinging and complaining about it"...

She is talking about something beyond the control of everyone, except the 'snide remarkers'....

So, pretty much, the " publicly whinging and complaining about it" is the only avenue left...

And, Naya is apologizing that she has had to resort to this to slove the problem....

++++++++++++++
That, to which you are mostly referring is appreciated, however, you and Zenchi, and a few others have had comments made by me on "YOUR PERMANENT RECORD", sorry.... :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

(just being silly, never has anything ever been said like that, I am only being [strike]groovy[/strike], er, goofy...