NZ takes steps towards criminalising begging

this is happening in the US as well. Now that the rich control the gov't they get whatever they want, and they don't want to see poor people or be reminded of those less fortunate than themselves.

Totally agree whyte horse.

That is not a homeless person. It is your father. Or your mother. Or your brother, sister, daughter or son. He is your best friend. She is your lover. See how he suffers? See her wounded feet?

They are not begging because it amuses them...

This is a prime example of people looking at numbers instead of the people those numbers represent.

Oh wow where to start. :dry: This is going to be very difficult to explain and I'm sure I'll piss some one one off.

There should never be a ban on homelessness because homelessness isn't a problem. Not all people that are homeless become as such do to bad luck or poor choices and even if they do so what!

Some of them choose to be homeless because living like us doesn't appeal to them or its harder or it just doesn't work. Why would any one choose to live this way you ask? Well why would any one wish to work their entire life to grow food only to lock it all away from them selves? The people of our culture are the hardest working people because of this. Homeless people live this way because being homeless is better for them. Its not easy just easier.

Now as for the ban. It will fail. Not that they wont try their damnedest to make it work but this is just something you cant FIX! because its not a problem. Homeless people, and I mean this in the most sincerest way, are like pot holes. You cant put a ban on pot holes because there will always be pot holes so long as you have roads. So long as you have civilization(The one right way to live) you'll have people to refuse to live that way. But where will they go? They have no training on hunting and gathering so they cant go to the wild. Since civilization is in most of the worlds livable space they have no choice but to live here.

Let me explain why a ban will fail. Like all other programs, that are meant to control the effect not fix the cause, this ban will fail do to the fact that these people aren't any different from us. They are us just in different situations. They are just going with the flow. Even our shelters that are meant to help the homeless do a very poor job of "helping". If a homeless person is unwilling to change they are cast back out to the street and have solved nothing. They certainly cant stay at the shelter forever because that would defeat the purpose of the shelter and would sooner or later become clogged with homeless people rendering the shelter useless. Not to mention costing lots of money. So whats left to do? Simple make the homeless shelter as uncomfortable and insufferable as possible so that people in it either leave or get pressured in to changing. Now apply this to a prison for those that brake the law against homelessness and you'll get the same result.

Sure our civilized leaders thought of all this right? :whistle: Yes they did and they dont care. Doing this will create another program for taxes to be dumped in to. Every year it will fail and every year it will be blamed on poor planning, bad training, not enough founds. Every year they'll get more time to plan, better training, and best of all MORE MONEY! So why would they ever stop doing the same thing that doesn't work.

What do we do? Turn a blind eye because some one ELSE is taking care of it.

If what your doing isn't working...try something else. :whistle:

Cant help them that dont want help...

I give where I can...

ANd when I cant, I feel bad...

I feel bad to see them outside a store, standing their with their babies, right off of the WalMart parking lot...

As a shop owner, I should have the right to not see them everyday on my property too... In front of my shop once a week, I might not have a problem with it...

Would you invite one of these folks to live outside your door? the ones not actually looking for help?

They might say they are, but, 3 weeks in, are you still so sure? 3 Months in?

It is not easy...

As a new public official, I dont know what I would do... Probably keep having the local police force take them to a shelter, once they show they dont want to improve, then take a different tactic...

In reality you do own a store and in order for it to succeed you can have homeless people there. I wouldn't judge you for getting them off "your" property only because thats a threat to your livelihood. Dont feel bad Jestor at least not for every one of them. Like I said there is lots of help out there for those people. Most of them know that. Some of them CHOOSE to live this way.

Jestor keep doing what your doing. Help them when you can. Help them the way they want to be helped. Thats all you can do.

I think it is a local issue and specific to the circumstances on the ground. I don't think the problem is as large in NZ or Australia as it is in the USA. I think shelters and services are effectively able to handle the amount of homeless people at night, but I'm probably wrong.... I would have guessed it was close but inevitably lagging.

The issue with begging is curious to me, as who carries any real change anymore, its all plastic cards except for a few coin's kept deliberately for parking or trolleys (and therefore not surplus). If begging is not giving what it used to as a result of that, the reduced results from it might lend to increased anxiety, frustration and aggression, especially consider a higher percentage of the homeless tend to suffer from mental disorder. Criminalization sounds very heavy handed though.

In the US you have a couple of options when destitution strikes. There are emergency shelters but they fill up and turn people away. You can get public housing but it takes 3 years on the wait list. You can get food stamps the same day you apply. There are free food and clothing through churches and charities.

When you see someone on the street asking for money they can be in any one of these stages. They could even be college kids, drunks, wealthy beggars, etc. I honestly believe that people who sincerely want help can and do find it but there are exceptions.

So then the real question here is "are people who beg, criminals"? In a free country, should you have the choice to make a profession out of begging? Or should you go to jail? Pay a fine? What about repeat offenders? Life in prison? Death penalty?

How do we define begging? What about churches that ask for donations? Political campaigns? The tips jar at coffee shops?

Maybe we can have special gated communities with security guards and cameras to keep them out.

Hey I think banking should be illegal. I'm tired of them harassing me with their signs everywhere, ads on TV, letters in the mail, influencing my gov't.

I don't know if it's true, but I heard that a lot of homeless (maybe the majority) are homeless and sometimes drug addicted because of mental issues. They're trying to self medicate, but it doesn't work very well.

Instead of making it illegal to beg, maybe we should try and get people the appropriate medical care. If someone is mentally ill and you "clean 'em up, give 'em a nice suit, and send 'em on an interview" that's not really addressing the issue.

Maybe people want blanket solutions to individual problems.