An interesting thought that occurred to me while meditating.

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5 years 5 months ago #320697 by
Hello everyone,

I wanted to share a thought which occurred to me today while meditating. To give a bit of context, I was meditating on my feelings and how connected we are because of them.

I was meditating on this connection, when suddenly a thought occurred to me. Every interaction we have in the world, whether it be using a computer, to laughing with another, is all linked through feeling.

Everything we see around us at this very moment, was conceived from an idea, a thought, a feeling, even a dream. A bed was once an idea, born from the feeling of comfort, for example.

When we interact with the world we think of it as thought. We think therefore we act. However there is also the element of feeling. When we pick up the pencil to write, we think of said action but we also feel what the pencil "means" to us. A pencil represents a tool for allowing expression of the word born out of the feeling of need for said expression. Likewise we are drawn to the pencil because of the feeling of need for fulfilment of said expression as well as the thought.

This underlying interaction symbolises the connection we have to all things and the connection all things have to us. Just as what we create is born of feeling, so too by feeling are we drawn to them. The "hidden tension" between all things so to speak.

This would also raise questions about the nature of things. The Bee was born of a need, for example. Is consciousness unique to us or did it exist before us? Are we the only conscious entity that can create through form and feeling?

Anyway, this was an interesting thought I had and I just wanted to share it with you all. I'm not saying any of this is fact or anything by any means, I'm simply pondering a thought and I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the idea.


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5 years 5 months ago #320699 by Locksley
Your excitement is infectious! :cheer:

I love the idea of applying a view of meaning through emotions rather than logic -- it is, I think intertwined, but the separation allows us to appreciate something specific. We see something and are moved to create because of it.

Do you know the Chinese game called GO? It's a game of subtle complexity and beauty, far more complex than Chess; its best players makes moves based off of an instinct for the board rather than an understanding of where the next move will lead. I think that this can be a quality of life as well, where we allow our tacit experience to guide us in powerful ways, rather than sitting back and trying to puzzle things out from "the outside."

As for consciousness... it seems likely that our specific form of consciousness exists because of our biological makeup and the long evolutionary track that led us here. But, can other beings we are aware of create through emotion? That seems very likely. Dolphins play, various animals have been known to paint for fun (as far as we can tell), other animals create elaborate games that serve no purpose other than what a human might term entertainment. Perhaps a large part of the urge to create, in the first place, is driven from an emotional need to play.

Carl Sagan wrote in Broca's Brain that (I paraphrase): the human mind has evolved to think about things, and so it is perfectly natural that thinking about things should be a pleasurable and joyful experience for us.

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5 years 5 months ago #320702 by Adder

Jayden Par wrote: This would also raise questions about the nature of things. The Bee was born of a need, for example. Is consciousness unique to us or did it exist before us? Are we the only conscious entity that can create through form and feeling?

I don't think its unique to us. I usually focus on deconstructing it all so its a good idea to go the other way and view it as consciousness itself!

Anyone who has had a close relationship with a pet will have seen indicators of complex thought and feeling way beyond just direct neediness. It seems to be they are limited more by their physical limitations on interaction then mental power, in regards to expression of complexity in their consciousness. But saying that I think it might need some underlying structure to enable complexity sufficient to develop a capacity to work with detection and recognition to meet a minimum threshold enough to 'think'. I'm not convinced a plant can pull it off for example, for while having lots of reactionary mechanisms which exhibit complex behaviour I wonder if a requirement exists for a central processing facility to enable all relevant data to be integrated in a place that has a mediating self between it and not it.... room for that 'hidden tension' to represent its motion as either in or out.

So with close long standing pets for example, there is a complexity which develops and IMO it seems to be the shape of that complexity which defines thought and behaviour. As you say a 'hidden tension', and I think it can be ignored or perceived in many ways.... such as being 'power', but then it tends to remain a clinging and grasping paradigm and never really takes off beyond physical body paradigm, but in contrast if its perceived as something tangible in its own right (like the bodily expression of the Force for example) then it can be its own platform perhaps for representing and integrating more fully with its capacity for complexity, being as information itself so its form it more representative of its nature rather then of sets of behaviour. In this way it can serve to allow connection beyond self in the widest possible diversity probably, in my opinion. And so in terms of self development, it could maybe allow one to better define themselves and work with dealing with all manner of problems in a hands on approach :D

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5 years 5 months ago #320707 by
There is a difference between consciousness and self consciousness. Of course consciousness existed before us. Even plants display a level of consciousness when they turn their leaves toward the sun.

I wonder if your trying to ask if some form of universal consciousness existed before us? You say the bee was born of a need. But what was that need? How do you arrive at the conclusion it was a need? And if a need who needed it and what provided the solution?

Seems to me, according to occams razor, the bee was just born, and then this "need" you speak of evolved after. And what happens if the bee goes away? Will this need not just take another form? Isn't this the true nature of reality? Nothing being inexpendable.

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5 years 5 months ago #320736 by
I believe feelings/emotions are very refined and very subtle energies that transcend time and space. Some people are better able to sense this energy than others. Most are to distracted by daily activity static to feel much beyond their immediate environment. When we (I) meditate our sensitivity to this energy becomes greater. I believe the same applies for thought energy though on a different wavelengths. Emotions can amplify thought to a powerful level, if we focus properly. Meditation is, for me, the state where this can takes place the best.

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5 years 5 months ago #320745 by
Thank you for your responses so far everyone, some really interesting thoughts and ideas and I'm glad to have somewhere to talk about this kind of stuff :)

Locksley: Thank you, I appreciate it :D I have never heard of the game Go, but i'll be sure to check it out! The only way to take a look at something in more detail is to separate it's components after all. Indeed, our consciousness (or self-consciousness as Kyrin mentioned) is unique to us in form. However, the possibility of other forms of consciousness or indeed a universal consciousness is quite an exciting thought.

Adder: I agree, I certainly don't think it is unique to us! I have noticed the same thing you describe with animals, its almost like a "sixth sense" a connection you know to be there. A central processing faculty may indeed be necessary to process the information. I like to think of the brain as a translator of consciousness and will into systematic thought. However while a plant may not have the ability to think its reactions to stimuli alone are amazing. I am sometimes amazed by how similar our Nervous system is in terms of shape and design to the branches of a tree for example. I certainly agree that this tangible connection can be used as a doorway for allowing connection beyond self! It would be interesting to see if any research has been conducted into it.

Kyrin: Good to hear from you again :) Indeed I was referring to self-consciousness and consciousness separately, apologies for not making that clear! My point about the Bee was in regards to the possibility of a universal consciousness, yes. Those are the questions, but how does one arrive at the concept of need outside of the self-consciousness? Does meaning and expression alter altogether? I haven't arrived at a conclusion it was a need however, it was my interpretation of thought I suppose. Occams Razor is a good argument, however I personally think that all things evolved through purpose of some kind. If it were the case that all creatures evolved before the need, then the intrinsic balance of nature would be far more chaotic. As we have seen from recent events also, certain aspects of nature are inexpendable when it comes to said balance.

Rickie: Indeed, feelings and emotions are powerful forms of expression that much is certain. I agree others are better at sensing it than others, and there have been many debates on why this is. That's why I believe mediation to be such an important aspect of daily practice.

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