Force Realist TV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY0-SNvbuLQ&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAS_4o6xUDY&feature=youtu.be

Alethea Thompson wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY0-SNvbuLQ&feature=youtu.be

I have so many opinions on this topic, but I don't even know where to start.

As someone that I actually value on this subject, I'd love to have you on the show to talk about it further. I am of the strong opinion that very few Jedi are cut out for advanced spiritual explorations.

I hope, this year, to address the concept of using "the Force".

And if I'm honest , I was kinda hoping to attract your attention to it.

Alethea Thompson wrote: As someone that I actually value on this subject, I'd love to have you on the show to talk about it further. I am of the strong opinion that very few Jedi are cut out for advanced spiritual explorations.

I hope, this year, to address the concept of using "the Force".

And if I'm honest , I was kinda hoping to attract your attention to it.

I would be honored to be of service. Thanks for your kind words on the matter.

I was very fortunate to have Steamboat on the show with me today. ^^ Thank you, again, for taking the time to express your views.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzJkm0tqkvA&feature=youtu.be

As one who has studied energy work for over 15 years, 10 of which were in formal training including reiki certification, I have come to believe that this sort of work is not about the manipulation of esoteric energy fields either part of this realm or removed from it. Rather it’s about a confidence in will to effect a desired outcome in self or others through the modification of state of mind. I too am one of those logical people with a highly scientific background and even though I have approached this work over the years with an open mind I have failed to find any evidence that such a field exists that can be manipulated in any way. Now I am not saying it does not exist. What I am saying is there is no proof it exists and in the absence of that proof there are simpler explanations for the effects we do observe. (Occam’s razor and all)

Energy does not exist without something to contain it. At the most basic level, force particles have this job in our universe. If this subtle energy field were a part of the natural universe then it should also be a measurable phenomenon that operates on natural law just like any other form of energy and thus its effects should be able to be consistently reproduced under controlled laboratory conditions. After centuries of exploration not a single consistent reproducible effect has ever been shown to be viable. There has never been a consistent hypothesis as to this field’s function that could be falsified under controlled testing. This is pretty strong evidence against its existence in the natural realm.

The next best explanation would be that this field does not exist in the natural realm at all but as some “substance” (i.e. subtle energy field) in a realm outside the natural – the supernatural. But if this is the case what method does this “supernatural field” use to interact with the natural? What force contains this field? If this field exists but has no interaction with the natural then it becomes superfluous. If whatever force contains this energy field has the capability to enter the natural realm and interact with our universe just as any other force particle, then it just becomes a part of the natural at that point and we are right back at having no proof of its existence. If for some reason this energy field operates outside of natural law in a way incomprehensible to us then that is no different than magic and the entire basis of our reality becomes meaningless.

Given these ideas, what I have come to understand is that when energy work is performed it’s not about moving an “energy substance”, either natural or supernatural, from one body to another. Rather it’s about the ability to change “state of mind” of self or others in accordance with will and thus effect desired change. We do this every single day. When someone give words of encouragement to another they are affecting positive change. When a bully demeans or intimidates another person they are affecting negative change. Benefit can be gained and damage can be done but the source of these things is not the worker of the discipline through the manipulation of ethereal forces. Instead it’s the belief of the recipient.

Belief is one of the most powerful tools we have. It is the method that facilitates change in the state of mind and it is the single vehicle that “energy work” has to cause change in accordance with will. To put it poetically, belief is the “force particle” that conducts “esoteric energy”. If we can come to believe in ourselves we can manifest anything. In kind, if we have the confidence of will to make others believe, that is a very powerful tool. Belief in another and what they are telling you is true facilitates connection and alters states of mind in the recipient. And this does work both ways, towards the positive or the negative. This is the very psychology of belief but it also means that we will never be able to effect anyone that has a lack of belief or change anything if we have a lack of belief in ourselves no matter how much we “call to the Gods” or work to manipulate implied “subtle forces”.

We are a species that is aware of not only our own mortality but also of our connection to one another. That connection is facilitated through a single creation in the big bang and furthered through the evolution of our species from common descent. We are all literally made up of the same star dust. This is no more profoundly demonstrated than by the idea that the exact same ratio of elements we find in nature is the same ratio we find in our bodies. There is a divine majesty in this knowledge that we can recognize. The mysteries of the origins of our reality and why we exist at all are profound enough. We don’t need to invent another layer on top of this in so called “subtle energy” as a key to the control of nature. The reality is that we have no control. We are not a special case in nature, either immanent or transcendent, that has been granted divine power over her forces. And if this were a naturally occurring ability we should see this capability in a multitude of other species. And yet we do not. This is because we, like them, are just along for the ride as an immanent part of the process.

When we comprehend this we can find necessity in connection and we can derive power from agreement and cooperation. Because of these qualities we can come together in symbolic acts such as Reiki and provide encouragement and support to others by the force of our wills in positive thinking. This in turn will manifest a change in the state of mind of its recipients. Positive states of mind such as this create hope and the awareness that we are not alone in this life which in turn relieves stress. These are some of the most basic building blocks to begin healing and this is the essence of “The Force” itself. Not some mysterious energy field to be manipulated but that mystical component of existence and its emergent property of consciousness that can only be interactively experienced. To me this is energy work, this is magick, this is Reiki.


I'd love to hear your thoughts!

I, personally, believe in something higher, because I've seen things happen around me. Things that aren't explained by anything so easily. A LOT, and I do mean A LOT, of what I've seen is easily chalked up to psychological phenomena. But there are physical manifestations of energy workings I've witnessed that simply is not explained so easily. Like the putting out of a candle when there is no wind present, and you're standing upright, say one word with an intent to put out the candle (never can remember what that word was), and suddenly the fire is out. Never been able to replicate it again, but hey- the guy that witnessed with me never picked up a cigarette again through the rest of High School (at least).

I believe there is something outside of us because of those incidents of things that I just can't explain what I was looking at. And I believe much of what Teresa of Avila believed, that some locutions are divine, some are demonic and some are psychological either misread as one of the two, or a legit mental health issue.

That is really the difference between Faith and Belief isn’t it. Faith is belief without reason. It claims knowledge of the unknowable. Belief, on the other hand, is an account of knowledge that can be verified and tested consistently. You witnessed an event that you could not readily explain when the candle fire went out. You could not reproduce that effect with the perceived cause. You lacked proof and yet you still chose to have “faith” that it was due to some esoteric force you had a fleeting control over. (Proof in this context being something consistently reproducible under the same conditions). The alternative to faith would be accepting the “belief” that it was one of a multitude of well-known phenomena that could cause a candle fire to extinguish, but you had possibly failed to perceive. Maybe it was a breeze you didn’t notice or maybe the melted wax extinguished the flame.

Now I’m not arguing as to whether you witnessed something paranormal or not. I’m just using the concept as an illustration that I think taps into one of the deepest human fears – the fear that “this is all there is”. If what we perceive is all there is to existence, it relegates us to a group of inconsequential apes existing on a rock in an insignificant corner of otherwise infinite space. We as a species have a hard time accepting that. This can’t be all there is, we must be special! We must be important somehow! We must be chosen because we are unique somehow! I think this is one of the main sources of all religious paradigms. Unfortunately it is also the source of some of the bloodiest conflicts and acts of genocide and ethnic cleansings in our history. And that still continues, even today!

This is the difference between religion and spirituality I think. Religion relegates one to staunchly follow a few elite leaders under a static unchanging, unquestionable doctrine while spirituality is a path of constant doubt, self-motivation and continual evolution of belief based on evidence under the mechanism of critical thinking. A religious path is easy to follow because it puts responsibility in the hands of others. A spiritual one is hard to follow because you must assume responsibility for your own beliefs and accept consequences for your own actions. Religion is something we do, Spirituality is something we are.

I think we should always explore our place in the cosmos from a position of skepticism. In this we should never reject the possibility of the existence of anything but also never just blindly accept that existence without proper evidence. And when extraordinary claims are made they should require extraordinary evidence. I think that is what the spirit of this place really teaches, not blind faith in doctrine but the opportunity to realize that no doctrine is sufficient because any attempt to define any sense of our spirituality in this way limits and cheapens it. In fact it is the entirety of all known human experience and myth that comes the closest to outlining the mystery of our existence.

In this concept, we are already immersed in the very phenomenon we are so desperately trying to find somewhere outside our existence. We miss the forest for the trees so to speak. But because to us, they are “just trees”, we dismiss them as mundane. We should not do this because it is the machinations of the very universe we dismiss that is the true mystery - infinite space and quantum physics and consciousness and the human condition are unfathomable enough. Why do we need to invent others that are not in evidence?

I have always wondered what someone like Luke Skywalker would think of his universe were he a real man that existed in a real place. Would he be as cavalier about his place in the universe as we are about ours? I wonder if he would dream of living on a small blue planet on the edge of a moderate galaxy and not know if there were any other life in the galaxy. Would he be captivated by the possibility of going into space for the first time or unraveling the mysteries of black holes or the big bang or exploring the very evolution of his species? To us an ultimate fantasy would be to be transported to the universe of Star Wars. Maybe to Luke his ultimate fantasy would be to live our lives? My point is that we should never take anything for granted and I think we need to try harder to find the majesty in creation just as we know it. We should always be curious but we don’t need to go searching for unicorns – we are the unicorns!

Topless Khaos again! This time to talk about his views on how "the Force" works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZlwZURiIUs&feature=youtu.be

I spent 20 minutes shouting at the show, "but we consume things, we eat things, We absorb energy just as much as we give off in many ways". Then you said we eat things and my I quickly raised both arms in the air and shouted "YES!" and then quickly put both hands back on the steering wheel as I almost went off the interstate while listening to a youtube video...

So if there is one thing I've learned from biology and healthcare being a provider myself, is yes we consume food and energy we also absorb energy via sunlight to a degree(not a lot) we also absorb heat from the environment if its warmer then we are etc, but we do leak a lot at the same time.

It seems to me though from my experiences and some of my own limited testing(and by no means complete), I do my best to only eat as much as I Work so I don't always eat 3 meals a day or have big meals on days when I'm off and resting and so forth and eat a lot more when I've been doing a lot of work or about to do a lot of work and that has actually stabilized my weight quite a bit from where I was steady on the increase before.

I think the more energy that transitions through us, the healthier we tend to be, but also the longer generally people live, I mean there's this big push for being active etc, you can be over-active and get yourself sick, you can be under-active and get yourself sick, but if you balance the energy you bring in with the energy going out and keep that energy transfer up to a reasonable minimum amount, that is the ideal solution? but that requires more testing too but I've been trying to keep to that kind of pattern. (I got a tai chi class coming up i'm joining in on for a better regular exercise technique to improve some of that.). So will see how that goes I plan on documenting that as I go in my apprenticeship journal but just tossing a different viewpoint in.

I’m so glad you took the time in this last video to explore some of the concepts with Khaos that I was speaking about in my earlier posts. Many times people are not open enough to explore both sides of an issue such as this and it’s always nice to see this more unbiased approach to presenting information like this. Khaos pretty much nailed my views of the force, with a few caveats. I happen to have a background in Astro-Physics so I like to think I know a little bit about Quantum Science lol. In any case when Khaos speaks of the ice cube melting in the glass leaking energy, this is not a one way process of energy going from the ice cube to the water. In fact energy goes from the water to the ice cube as well. This is the process of warming the ice cube (adding energy to the ice cube) to transform it from ice to water. The ice cube still exists in the glass, just in a different form, now with actually more energy than it had before. In kind the water actually has less energy than it had before because it is cooler than it was before the Ice cubes were introduced to the system. So instead of thinking of the water sucking energy, it’s more of a mutual exchange of energy that facilitates and equilibrium between ice and water.

This is the difference between a closed energetic system and an open energetic system. An open system is one where new energy is constantly infused into it. An example of this is our solar system. The sun constantly infuses new energy into our planet and thus our open system does not go from order to disorder. Instead it goes from disorder to greater order. In this process life does not struggle or fight against existence, it actually thrives and progresses easily to greater complexity. However this too is finite and will eventually one day cease to function as the energy of the sun runs out.

Closed systems, on the other hand, such as the ice cube and the glass (and each of us and our environment) strive for an equilibrium in their states. This is the very definition of entropy. In this case a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work. Once the ice is melted (heated) and the water is cooled, equilibrium is achieved and no more work can be done. This is not only the fate of each of us individually but it is also the eventual fate of the universe itself. A state of equilibrium where no more work can be done. We observe this process as the universe (and us individually) gaining greater and greater disorder.

This is a process that we have no control over because we are an integral part of it. In this I mean we can’t manipulate the energy under our own terms. We can’t direct it for healing or telekinetic’s or other pseudo-scientific practices. We can only accept the natural process for what it is under the laws of quantum physics. I think this eloquently describes my worldview which is one of balance of both the “dark and the light” (for lack of better terms) in all things. This function of the universe is one I think we see reflected in our lives - one of finiteness. As Khaos says, there is no after life, no such thing as force ghosts, or the continuation of consciousness after death. (at least there is no evidence for this) It’s this aspect of our existence that makes our lives even that much more valuable. We only have a limited amount of time in this reality to achieve the things we want to achieve. Why not take every moment and work to that versus making excuses as to why you can’t do this or shouldn’t try that. (That may or may not be based in some invented religious paradigm)

If we are to get anywhere close to spiritual truth it is paramount that we keep reality separate from fantasy. We should always explore our place in the cosmos from a position of skepticism. In this we should never reject the possibility of the existence of anything but also never just blindly accept that existence without proper evidence. And when extraordinary claims are made they should require extraordinary evidence. There are many more sheep in our world than there are critical thinkers and I have always found it curious as to why this is. I don’t understand why people would rather blindly believe by putting that responsibility of faith into the hands of others than evaluate these things for themselves. I think part of it must be the unwillingness to face the prospect that the truth of reality is one that they would not prefer. But this is not the way a rational mind works. We should never fall into the trap of pretending something is real just because it is comfortable or we want it to be real. Instead we need to always strive to face and accept the most accurate truth of reality possible. We need to learn to see it for what it is, not for what we want it to be.

It’s because of my worldview that I reject all religion and doctrine. No single religious paradigm even begins to encompass the majesty of existence. As I posted previously, I think there is a difference between religion and spirituality. Religion is something you do while spirituality is something you are. Spirituality is actually living this limited life we have to the fullest potential possible because is the only one we get! The alternative is chasing after illusory religious ghosts or imaginary powers that are not in evidence and really have no bearing on reality at all. They only serve to distract you from the mission of living your life!

It is usually a common belief of mine (with some exceptions) That there is a grain of truth in just about everything and not one of them is more right or wrong than the other.

Myself, for example, use electromagnetic energy as a Basic methodology of teaching the Force to new Jedi. It's a fantastic way with perfect props.

But, as I tell people often....

It is just one Grain of Truth to the whole.

Steam.

Khaos

Connor

Kyrin

Ally

Tellahane

We all present a peace of the pie and with all the peaces together we can roughly find an overall and encompassing belief and practice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SXUPxVV6Ps

Aaaah........Charles......

Okay. My kids and my pets have....I think....calmed down. (keeps the armor on just in case)

I love you Charles!! We have been good friends for very many many years!! So I am sure you already know....I disagree <-- Yup. Thats me. I always disagree. Right here!! The Disagreeing meanie Trisskar Ar'ran!!!!!!

Ok....Joking aside

First Point

You are not a professional wizard. There is no such thing as a professional wizard. There is no standard of rule on how one becomes a professional wizard and you won't get any tax paying credit for said job Its not like your the Wal Mart of Wizardry haha

You did not go to a Wizard School

You did not get a Wizards Dagree and....

You did not progress through a structure of Ranks to reach "Professional" status.

You simply took a few energy working classes from some friends (Who are great people!!!) and some Reiki "Training" which is a debate we have already had.... and then decided to call yourself a Wizard. The things you do....are only real to you and those who chose to believe in your works.

You. Like the Jedi. Is all origional self proclaimed, self created and self manifested....Wizard of you. Its all you. You are a professional of YOU.

Just like each Jedi within the community is a "Professional" of their own self creations and beliefs.


AND THAT IS OKAY!!!!!!!


What is not okay is you saying you have a higher authority on the viewpoints of "The Force" because of what you do.

"The Force" Is purely FICTIONAL and extreemly Open Ended.

If a Christian wants to say The Force is God....he can say so.

If a Pagan wants to say it is the Godess....She can do that.

If a Buddhist or Eastern Philosopher wants to say it is Chi or Qi or Parana or....whatever provance we are in calls it.....THEY CAN!!!! They DO!!! They WILL!

And not a single version is more right or wrong than the other. Every single one of them are "Professional."



Second Point

I also liked Khaos's interview. And I actually did like his Ice Cube anology. Obviously there are some points id argue....There are some parts im not in agreement with...some parts that could be tweeked up a little bit....But hey! I have the right to that!! Or...do I? Im not a professional by your standards haha But I would never go so far as to say its horrible and wrong..... I guess that's what makes being a Jedi and a Wizard different though....


which leads into



Third Point

Obviously we all have our own unique view. I certianly have my own.....

But

Lets not kid ourselves and sit here proclaiming our views are more professional than anothers.

Integrity folks....

I enjoy these shows when I actually get a free....Hour to watch them....But one of the reasons why I like them is because all of the bullshit online forum drama of "Im right your wrong" is usually not present. Its just the host. The Speaker, and interesting topics to concider based on one spectrum of viewpoints.

Anyways....Im off to bed. Love ya!! Thank you Ally

Trisskar wrote: There is no such thing as a professional wizard.

Bull. If he claims to be a wizard, and people pay him for what he claims is wizarding, he's a professional wizard. That's what "professional" means.

If a Christian wants to say The Force is God....he can say so.

Not theologically, they can't. There are a whole host of issues with this notion and I wish people would quit equating the two like they're the same when they don't even have a fully-formed God concept to start with.

Obviously we all have our own unique view. I certianly have my own.....

But

But, they are not equally correct. In fact, some of these "unique views" are demonstrably false. Because of this, they don't necessarily deserve equal consideration. The best we can do is give folks the benefit of the doubt, but if folks are wrong, they're wrong. No shame in being wrong, only in staying that way in the face of new evidence or knowledge.

steamboat28 wrote:

Trisskar wrote: There is no such thing as a professional wizard.

Bull. If he claims to be a wizard, and people pay him for what he claims is wizarding, he's a professional wizard. That's what "professional" means.

Simply making a claim and being paid does not make you a Professional. There are Standards and Progressions required to achieving these "Professional" Goals. If he wants to be a wizard, all power to him! He knows that I support him $100% (He also knows that when we disagree it's towards a progress of knowledge and no hard feelings in the process ) But adding "Professional" is a stretch of the ego there and he knows it.

Anyone can go collect rocks and sea shells, claim to super charge them with spirits and sell them on Etsy and Ebay. That dosn't make them a professional though.

steamboat28 wrote:

Trisskar wrote: If a Christian wants to say The Force is God....he can say so.

Not theologically, they can't. There are a whole host of issues with this notion and I wish people would quit equating the two like they're the same when they don't even have a fully-formed God concept to start with.

You think that. I think that. Many others think that........That does not change the fact that SOME People Can, will and do claim the force to be God and still be concidered Jedi. Until we come up with a strict and unifying set of standards and regulations of progression in the "Profession" of Jedi.....Yea. We get to put up with "Christian Jedi" and sucks to be us (Love you Ally!!!)

steamboat28 wrote:

Trisskar wrote: Obviously we all have our own unique view. I certianly have my own.....

But

But, they are not equally correct. In fact, some of these "unique views" are demonstrably false. Because of this, they don't necessarily deserve equal consideration. The best we can do is give folks the benefit of the doubt, but if folks are wrong, they're wrong. No shame in being wrong, only in staying that way in the face of new evidence or knowledge.

Correct. Does not change the fact that they can, do and will make these claims regardless, and the only right any of us have to say towards right or wrong is our own personal opinions. (Which does not equate to "Professionalism")

Trisskar wrote: Simply making a claim and being paid does not make you a Professional....Anyone can go collect rocks and sea shells, claim to super charge them with spirits and sell them on Etsy and Ebay. That dosn't make them a professional though.

It literally does, though, because--say it with me--words. mean. things.. A professional is someone who makes a living at a thing. Period. Any certifications or schooling or training required to do that in certain fields falls under a different word, but simply being paid to do something as a job makes one a professional. And if you don't believe me, and we still disagree on this, there are a few dictionaries you can look to for guidance.

You think that. I think that. Many others think that........That does not change the fact that SOME People Can, will and do claim the force to be God and still be concidered Jedi...Yea. We get to put up with "Christian Jedi" and sucks to be us (Love you Ally!!!)

This isn't an issue with "Christian Jedi." This is an issue with Christians making claims that are unsupported by their own doctrines and not understanding their own theology.

steamboat28 wrote: Correct. Does not change the fact that they can, do and will make these claims regardless, and the only right any of us have to say towards right or wrong is our own personal opinions.

I think you missed my point on this one.

You are right. Words do Mean things.


Professional

1. relating to or connected with a profession

Google Prompt

---

1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession
b : engaged in one of the learned professions
c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession

Marriam Webster - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/professional

----

1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain:
a professional builder.
2. of, relating to, or connected with a profession :


Dictionary - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/professional

----

1. Person formally certified by a professional body of belonging to a specific profession by virtue of having completed a required course of studies and/or practice. And whose competence can usually be measured against an established set of standards.

2. Person who has achieved an acclaimed level of proficiency in a calling or trade. See also professionalism.

Business Dictionary.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/professional.html

_________________________________________________
Not to be confused with "Profession" (Which is not the same as 'Professional')
_________________________________________________

Profession

a paid occupation, especially one that involves prolonged training and a formal qualification. [Google Prompt]

1. the act of taking the vows of a religious community

2. an act of openly declaring or publicly claiming a belief, faith, or opinion

Marriam Webster - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/profession


----

1. a vocation requiring knowledge of some department of learning or science:

Dictionary - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/profession


----

Occupation, practice, or vocation requiring mastery of a complex set of knowledge and skills through formal education and/or practical experience. Every organized profession (accounting, law, medicine, etc.) is governed by its respective professional body.

Business Dictionary - http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/profession.html

So yes. By one definition an Individual can have a PROFESSION by the claim and pay idea's presented here.

But to become a PROFESSIONAL in said PROFESSION one must progress through a set of formal education and structures in said Profession. And since there is no real Hogwarts for Witch Craft of Wizardry or any O.W.L's to complete....It is only by ones own personal opinion that one has reached "Professional" status. Thus...Only gives said person the "right" to speak only on their own behalf.....and not the behalf of a community said person dosn't even practice in.

So on the one hand yes, you are right, I am wrong. Charles IN THEORY (by the streach of ones imagination) could be a "Professional Wizard" if he really really wants to be because geee...he said so.


That still does not give him any right or say to speak on behalf of Jedi on the accurate definitions and meanings of "The Force" as an authority base of right way or wrong way.