Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

well...
when I start working on cafepress and zazzle i found that "LucasFilm" or whatever is called, own the copyright of crazy things as the word "Jedi" and many others .

Maybe if someone really build a temple there is NO WAY to call it Temple of the Jedi Order
because copyright infringement, so ...

What is the point to have a temple, that can not carry our name?

in my opinion right now, we need to find first what are the LEGAL options to use our name.
or more crazy, try to find why " Jedi" is copyrighted, or worst, try to make "lucasFilm" release the rights of it.
Or even more crazy, go straight to George Lucas. ( maybe doesn't work, because now Disney own some of the rights)
Maybe we need to deal with Disney?

I know, there's money involved in this process too, but the only way to make something Legit/Legal, is to do it right.
and right now, looks impossible to use our name...
Maybe they allow this website just because we aren't big, and because we are just a few guys, and we don't make any money, and there is no presence in the real world.

Looks crazy, but ... it looks that we don't have the right to use even our temple name, outside here.
Maybe that is more important?
Maybe is more important to make this a recognized religion? ( some places/countries don't have a way to legalize a religion) and make release the "Jedi" word to be used freely.

What is the point to have a temple without our name?

Connor Lidell wrote: Now, you've brought up the point I hoped you would. What if we did try and work for a donation-supported site? Why are you afraid to ask for money?

Connor Lidell wrote: I don't mean to assume you feel anything. Don't assume the accusation was pointed at you, because it wasn't.

"As you brought up a point"

"What are you afriad of?"

Lol, don't see anyone else pointing out what I did, lol...

Connor wrote: But, this website is THE most successful Jedi website, ever. It's why I originally left my little sphere of the net to join here. Because, I believe that this place has the most chance of reaching the most people.

Think about it. We do need to start small. But, we have the ability to do it. You have people who want to support you, but maybe don't know how. I know I've never donated because I just don't know what it would do. There's no community-wide effort. But, if the council made it known their goals, I would understand what the donations would be doing and the purposes behind them. If you put up how much money was gathered every month, people would see the growth. People might get excited and understand why we might donate. People might even start giving to the temple regularly.

So our repeated acknowledgements that we need funds to help the internet operating costs have been missed?

Ah, so you want to see our financials each month...

Well, if we had a money person (financial officer?) that we could assign that task to every month, that might happen...

Or, if we didn't (as council) have to give permission or answer these types of threads, lol, maybe we could squeeze a few more minutes out of our day... But, I'm stretched pretty thin...

To my core, I believe in it. But I don't run this site. I help run IJRS. And, our temple project is in progress. Has been for years. We are at least moving in a direction.

Here's the problem: I will donate when there's a purpose to doing so.

It goes toward operating costs of the site...

Our biggest expense is site cost, every dime goes there, and its still short of making it...

Until site costs have a surplus, that is where all the money goes...

And WHEN there is a surplus, we can discuss even more...

I'm asking the council to find a purpose. Like I said, website funding, building, whatever. It can't just be "implied" either. It's gotta be a corporate campaign, with money becoming a tool we use.

Money is extremely powerful. That's why I don't use it lightly.

This nonchalant attitude about donating is the reason I don't donate. I don't even know what it would do.

I feel as though I've become an antagonist, here... I don't understand how that happened. But it doesn't make me feel good. So sorry if I'm spouting nonsense. I said earlier I may be wrong. But, I believe in this so much with my soul. There is power in it.

You have not been labeled that....

But, as everyone else bowed out, and you want to talk, I'm talking...

I'll admit, I'm talking strong, but, I know you can handle it....

There are four trademarks / service marks registered in the US for the word Jedi. They're all owned by Lucas companies. The one that's probably preventing us from selling t-shirts, caps etc is this one. Look at the last paragraph.

Word Mark JEDI

Goods and Services IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: Children's activity books; novels for adults; book covers; book marks; books containing puzzles and games; books featuring photographs; books for role-playing; children's books; children's books combined with toys and sold as a unit; children's story books; coffee table books; comic books; comic magazines; printed instructional manuals and strategy guides in the field of computer games and science fiction; juvenile books featuring science fiction; magazines in the field of science fiction entertainment; novels for juveniles; posters; puzzle books; read-along children's books; series of fiction books; sticker albums; sticker books; stickers; story books; temporary tattoos; trading cards; art prints; animation cels; collectible trading cards; lithographic prints. original works of art created from paper, photographic prints; printed art reproductions; posters featuring printed replicas of characters from movies. FIRST USE: 19931000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19931000

IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: Clothing, namely, caps; children's footwear; coats; costume accessories, namely, headwear and belts; crop tops; dresses; fitness tops; footwear; gloves; hats; head wear; jackets; knit caps; masquerade costumes and masks sold in connection therewith; pajamas; shirts; sleepwear; slippers; sweatshirts; T-shirts; underwear; visors. FIRST USE: 20050500. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050500

Connor Lidell wrote: This nonchalant attitude about donating is the reason I don't donate. I don't even know what it would do.

Congratulations! You're now officially part of the problem.

The donations keep this site afloat, something that doesn't just magically happen because we're a religious organization. This is why other religious organizations solicit donations--because it's their only source of income, and all of them have some kind of expense. Nothing is truly free unless it's given with no strings, including hosting. Websites aren't free (at least not pretty, functional ones), and even if they were, that would mean that someone, somewhere is making a general donation of something that costs someone money somewhere, OR that they've found a way to monetize it.

The fact that you demand a "purpose" for donations before you'll consider donating is disheartening in a thread about a physical meeting place, when our world-wide accessible digital one doesn't make enough money to keep it up and running without becoming someone's out-of-pocket. It's doubly sad when you consider that hosting this website is considerably cheaper than the upkeep on any physical land/building combination, most likely anywhere on the planet.

That is one of the reasons TOTJO will "never" be able to afford a physical temple: because until something really, really ******* drastic changes in TOTJO's bank account and member participation in general, we'll never be able to do anything more than we are currently doing. Hell, we're doing good to tread water financially, and we hemorrhage new members for some reason.

But yeah. No. Physical temple before we get the cheaper, more-accessible version stable. Totally great idea.

*sigh* Fine, I'm sorry. I'll let it go.

I feel as though it's a matter of making it a sitewide focus. But, I'm probably just wrong.

Whyte Horse wrote: 4. Vote

Council's agreement:
Br. John: Said he wants a temple
Jestor: said he wants a temple
Akkarin: said he wants a temple
Brenna: said she wants a pony

Oh wait, maybe I got one of those wrong

Looks correct to me. But im not on council, or you can be damn sure there would be ponies by now!

[Enter Wes on his dark Unicorn Pegasus Pony... Wes, have you named it yet? :lol:]

Jestor wrote: [Enter Wes on his dark Unicorn Pegasus Pony... Wes, have you named it yet? :lol:]

Twinkie.

Brenna wrote:

Jestor wrote: [Enter Wes on his dark Unicorn Pegasus Pony... Wes, have you named it yet? :lol:]

Twinkie.

HAHAHAHAHA.....

So, i was just faffing around on facebook and saw this.






Sure, we arent in the business of feeding the poor (officially anyway) but bottom line... there are more important things to spend our money on than building things.

Like ensuring that the Temple we do have stays up.

Buildings are just shells.



(though if we are ever in a position to have 1.1mil for a building, im petitioning for ponies. Just so you know.

And a hot tub.

Brenna wrote: And a hot tub.

Seconded.

There’s been a lot of discussion in this thread and a lot of talk.

Honestly, I donate every year and am glad to. And if need be I will donate more. Do we need a physical temple? No. But I plan on building one in a few years anyways. And I have been planning on building one for over a year now.

I don’t think TotJO is in any danger of being at the point where it is time to build a temple on her own. So to me, the entire debate about it is a moot one. Just my opinion.

PS. And what’s wrong with Twinkie? :huh:

hahahhahahhaha :laugh: :silly: :woohoo:

OK, I "third" the hot tub idea and have one that's fully functioning to donate. The cover needs a repair but that's it. 100% brand new $5k hot tub. Above ground so, easy to move. anyway...

I really want to look into the trademark infringement that was mentioned. I strongly believe that TOTJO has sufficiently divested itself from Lucas Arts and I believe that anyone claiming TOTJO is infringing Lucas is violating my right to express my religion. I'd need to see the actual graphics and compare them to Lucas but from what I've seen the TOTJO stuff is all original and they tell you right on the front page they are not the fictional Jedis(aka Lucas). FYI Disney bought Lucas so get ready to fight the Empire.

Another thing is that churches don't pay tax in the US. So any property tax would be non-existent if the property is registered to TOTJO. Big deal, seriously. It saves money.

One more thing: I farted. No just kidding. The one more thing is about the temple:

Yeah so Connor has reservations. Well maybe he doesn't understand.

Yeah the council is too busy to start a temple: that's why I said to start a fund and then vote and then we can do what's needed. They don't need the BS. We can do it. No problem.

People think we don't need a temple: well yeah all we need is food, water, and sleep. We can break it down to necessities and eventually you end up like the monks where it's cheaper to provide food, etc througha monastery, blah blah blah.

So how do we raise funds. Well ya know I really didn't want to say this because it sounds so cliche but in Buddhism they go around with bowls and collect money from the people on the street. This works pretty well for me because I don't use money and y'all need money so I could just go get it and send it in. I could send you something far more valuable but you'd just throw it away because it's not pretty paper money, haha.

Wescli Wardest wrote: There’s been a lot of discussion in this thread and a lot of talk.

Honestly, I donate every year and am glad to. And if need be I will donate more. Do we need a physical temple? No. But I plan on building one in a few years anyways. And I have been planning on building one for over a year now.

I don’t think TotJO is in any danger of being at the point where it is time to build a temple on her own. So to me, the entire debate about it is a moot one. Just my opinion.

PS. And what’s wrong with Twinkie? :huh:

hahahhahahhaha :laugh: :silly: :woohoo:

Well Wescli, thank you for supporting the temple and being so generous. If you plan on building a temple then why not team up with losers like me to make it an awesome loserville? No just kidding I'm a winner not a loser. Or maybe I'm a loser and not a winner, I forgot. But anyway the most important thing is we can work together and lose or win side-by-side and that's what's important.

Brenna wrote:

Whyte Horse wrote: 4. Vote

Council's agreement:
Br. John: Said he wants a temple
Jestor: said he wants a temple
Akkarin: said he wants a temple
Brenna: said she wants a pony

Oh wait, maybe I got one of those wrong

Looks correct to me. But im not on council, or you can be damn sure there would be ponies by now!

OK Brenna, now that I got your attention, let's talk about corruption in charities. What do YOU think about TOTJO taking money from the poor/rich to use for a temple? Assuming the hot-tub is free so it's just a temple perk, what would give a TOTJO temple the following qualities:
1. Tranparency
2. Meaningful purpose worthy of the donations of the poor
3. Meaningful purpose worthy of Jediism
4. Meaningful purpose worthy of society in general

Sorry to be so lengthy but I value your experience working with non-profits and I believe your answers would be useful in founding a temple of Jedis.

Whyte Horse wrote: OK Brenna, now that I got your attention, let's talk about corruption in charities. What do YOU think about TOTJO taking money from the poor/rich to use for a temple? Assuming the hot-tub is free so it's just a temple perk, what would give a TOTJO temple the following qualities:
1. Tranparency
2. Meaningful purpose worthy of the donations of the poor
3. Meaningful purpose worthy of Jediism
4. Meaningful purpose worthy of society in general

Sorry to be so lengthy but I value your experience working with non-profits and I believe your answers would be useful in founding a temple of Jedis.

Oh man, I walked straight into this one didnt I?

Firstly, one of the reasons I would not at this stage support the building of an official Temple, or for that matter advocate that we have an agressive fundraising strategy for the current funding needs, is because I dont believe that we are in a place where it is necessary. I dont know that we are ready for it.

Legally speaking, there is no reason why not.

Ethically speaking, there is no reason why not.

When you say "totjo taking money from the rich/poor" you make it sound as though the people donating would be forced. The truth is, any donation made is done so voluntarily. If people want to contribute to the building of a temple, then that is their prerogative. Provided that there is accountability for the spending of the money, and the purpose for which it is raised made clear at the time the donations are solicited.

I am not TOTJO. I cannot answer your points. For the moment, our TOTJO community is online and our "work" done individually in each of our lives. When there are more of us, and the need for a Temple becomes apparent, ask me again.

Tell me Whyte Horse, how would YOU answer those questions. How would you define "meaningful purpose"? (besides a hot tub and a place to store the weed)

PS, Dear Council. A bigger Donate Now button cant hurt

How interesting. So I have a question if you are going to actively ask for donations. I won't even touch on how horrid a business model that is.

Why Should I? Why should my money go to the Temple of the Jedi Order specifically?

I am infinitely curious your sales pinch on donations. Especially with a bowl to the public. I am a Jedi seeking spiritual exploration - please help?

Here lets make it a bit easier. A little context. I dropped a 1000.00 USD to attend the Jedi Gathering last year. I will probably get up around there again this year. Why should that money go to the Temple of the Jedi Order instead? I mean I can make a good case on why it should go KUSC (nevermind something like the Red Cross) instead, but why should it go to the Temple of the Jedi Order?

1. Tranparency

No it doesn't. Not guaranteed at all. And we'll ignore the political instability of said organization.

2. Meaningful purpose worthy of the donations of the poor
3. Meaningful purpose worthy of Jediism
4. Meaningful purpose worthy of society in general

This would go to my Why question. Meaningful Purpose - How? How is it meaningful? For you to have a summer retreat? For you to have a place to escape too? For you to magically find spiritual well-being that was somehow not obtainable anywhere else?

Why Should I will be the number question for all donations. If you can quantify "Meaningful Purpose" you might have something. But lets look at what you cannot say. You cannot say donation will go to other Charities. That is silly. You will have to sell Jedi as worth giving money too. So what is this worth? What is a person investing in when they donate to the Temple of the Jedi Order? Why Temple of the Jedi Order and not Temple of the Jedi Force? Why should my money come here? What makes this place worthy of donations?

Opie Macleod wrote: Why Should I will be the number question for all donations. If you can quantify "Meaningful Purpose" you might have something. But lets look at what you cannot say. You cannot say donation will go to other Charities. That is silly. You will have to sell Jedi as worth giving money too. So what is this worth? What is a person investing in when they donate to the Temple of the Jedi Order? Why Temple of the Jedi Order and not Temple of the Jedi Force? Why should my money come here? What makes this place worthy of donations?

Currently its very simple. This website costs money to run. If you want to help it run, then do so. If you dont, then the members of council will dig into their own pockets, as they have done before, and fork out so that you and every other person who has the privilege of using this website for whatever they feel they want to get out of it, can continue to do so.

Worthy, is a question answered by each user.

Comparing a donation to the TOTJO to a live gathering that requires all the necessities of an event, things like accommodation etc, makes little sense and seems irrelevant.

We have no physical temple, nor a plan for one, nor a need for one. And to my knowledge, the totjo has never actively asked for donations. In fact, in the last site redesign, the damn button got made about half its original size.

So this question is speculation and rhetorical. And after an answer that is not about money at all.

Show me a religion or religious organisation which doesn't cover costs through donations. I go to the local Buddhist temple, I make a small donation to show my appreciation for their hospitality in letting me join their session. It's not required and though it's never explicitly asked for, it's a recognised form of gratitude or appreciation. Their lifestyle isn't free... a monk's gotta eat.

Web hosting isn't free, either. As an active member here, and because it's within my means to do so, I contribute a little each month. Why should a place that brings so many of us pleasure and inspiration be paid for by one or two senior members?

I'm not sure how this is a horrible business model... donations are solicited by the presence of the Donate Now button. I doubt any extension of that would amount to much more than some essentially ignorable forum posts. It's not like we're talking about moving to a subscription model.

Much more important than a temple, lol...

We need funds, lol, to just run the temple self sufficiently...

Excellent questions Opie, and perhaps what Connor was trying to get across to me......

You don't borrow money to pay your internet bill at home each month, and then go try to buy a home...

First, you get to where you can pay for your bills, then look at buying... (right about taxes, sorry, wasn't thinking, lol)

We need a group working on that...

As an excatholic, I was tired of having requests for money constantly, and have fought against active solicitation of members...

I'm not an expert, and, will bow to them on these matters...

But, until people step up, and take that helm, we will do our best...

Kind of a catch-22...

We need donations, I say this constant, yet I'm against active solicitation ...

Lol, quite the quandary...