Jedi Pyramid

Alethea Thompson wrote: As I've said, the majority of you won't take a stance on what it means to be a Jedi-but if we took an analysis of your lives it would match up perfectly.

To be frank, this statement sums up my entire issue with this topic, Alethea. I have been involved in several conversations with you in the past and explained my view of what makes someone a "Jedi". You choose to ignore it every time but were you to "analyze" my life and determine that I am unworthy of the title of Jedi I would still call myself one...whether or not it meshes with what your stance on being a "Jedi" is all about.

Another huge issue I have with this topic is that you started it with a request for feedback but over the numerous occasions when someone said that it didn't sound like something that would fit well here...you appear to want to force it on them, like if they choose not to use it they are not being true to what it takes to be a "Jedi Realist".

Alethea Thompson wrote: Ren, to be no est with you, I believe you just want to rule the world of the Jedi. Which is fine, and if you ever accomplished it, it would make you a fine Sith. Understand that this outlines what it takes to be a Jedi, not a knight- I expect others to recognize Jedi not necessarily their ranks, it just so happens that the FA is the first and only one that has a process to do so.

You mention Ren's desire to "rule the world of the Jedi" but I have never seen that ambition show in his writing. I have seen what I perceive to be a deep sense of pride in TotJO and its daily functions. That being said, I find myself agreeing with Brenna in that your aggressive pursuit of TotJO's agreement to adopt your "pyramid" is very reminiscent of a deep-seated yearning to control others. Even your desire to unify everyone by joining all of our perceived similarities into a guideline of how to be a Jedi seems much like the Roman's attempts to assimilate every nation they came into contact with.

My personal thoughts on your Jedi Pyramid...let FA do it if they want and if TotJO's Council should decide in the future to incorporate it into the Initiates Training, Apprenticeship Program, Clerical Studies or just the additional (optional) training materials section of the IP...then that can be their choice. I would personally argue against it if given the chance as I have with you, Andy and Charles on more than one occasion. I would rather Jediism tried to reach more people who are average people in need of inner peace instead of trying to reach fewer people who are religious zealots, scholars, and monks.

Now since I'm sure Jestor is probably hogging them all, can someone please pass the cookies?

Alethea Thompson wrote: Ren, to be no est with you, I believe you just want to rule the world of the Jedi. Which is fine, and if you ever accomplished it, it would make you a fine Sith.

Ren is not a dictator, sure he can be stubborn and difficult at times, sometimes he sends out the vibe of arrogance, so he's not perfect but he's not some dictator who tries to control everyone either, if he was why hasn't he made more progress to assimilate factions of Jedi into TOTJO?

"I believe you just want to rule the world of the Jedi" - Says the person who is trying to implement a strict guideline for every Jedi...

Ren sits there and adopts the stance "You do what you want and we will do what we want"

Whilst you adopt the stance "THIS IS HOW TO BE A REAL JEDI, YOU'RE WRONG"

The funny thing about trying to control people is that it requires you to tell them what they can and can't do...yet you're the only one who is trying to tell people what they can and can't do to be a Jedi.

This is not Christianity, we have no bible to tell us how to live our lives. We make our own choices here at TOTJO, as long as we stick to serving the community that's all that matters.

I can see where this might be headed..

Lets stop for a second, everyone deep breath, now exhale...

I realize what Alethea said, and I chuckled as well..

The sentiment about her actions has been mentioned 4 times, now 5, lol...

So lets make productive posts...

If you like Brenna's post, Akkarin's, Resticon's, or Metsu's, just like it please...

I don't need to ease through more similar posts, lol...

Well it's not a bad document, but I honestly fail to see how any of those things make a person a Jedi in anything other than name only.

Maynoth, I have read your rant in various forms many times now, on two different sites. Where are the masters? Why aren't they well known? And for that matter, who made you the arbiter of who is and who is not a 'real' jedi? Isn't that the very thing you are railing against in this particular post.

In my mind, you ARE trolling. Because it plays out again and again and again like this, with you as the poor embattled heroine in distress, why o why won't they just LISTEN?

I have. And I found it lacking, and I think others have too. Many times. So why do you keep doing this?

Desolous wrote: Where are the masters?

China for the most part.

Desolous wrote: Why aren't they well known?

Of the small handful that exist (ten or less) one of them is well known.

Desolous wrote: And I found it lacking, and I think others have too.

You never found it anything, because you've never examined any of it.

Are you calling me a liar, maynoth? Be careful of your words.

Desolous wrote: Are you calling me a liar, maynoth? Be careful of your words.

You and I have never discussed in private the evidence I have to support my position, if you are claiming my evidence is lacking then you have no basis to do so because you've never bothered to examine it yourself.

Metsu wrote: Whilst you adopt the stance "THIS IS HOW TO BE A REAL JEDI, YOU'RE WRONG"

And to Akkarin and Resticon:

You know, I would LOVE to be able to have a document that would read at the top of it "Author: Jedi Community" rather than "By Alethea Thompson", "By Streen", "By Opie MacLeod", "By Temple of the Jedi Order", "By Institute for Jedi Realist Studies", or any other number of one small collective or individual. So far, at ToTJO, the only people to add anything of value in constructive criticism are a very small handful. Ren's idea of constructive criticism is just criticism. It didn't add anything to the conversation, it didn't give actual feedback, in fact it actually showed more that he didn't really read through the material properly (which material that was ToTJO's or mine I cannot be 100% sure).


And just to you Resticon:

”Resticon” wrote: What I feel defines a Jedi as opposed to other religions is quite simply the Dogma spoken about in the Jedi Code and Jedi Creed. While all religions have a "force", most religions vary about what is right and wrong with other religions. Jedi do not focus on what is wrong with other religions but rather on what unites all people regardless of race, religion, gender, age, sexual orientation, etc.

This is the only time you ever stated what you believed a Jedi is, and if you go back through the documents you will find that it NEVER was challenged. What I challenged with you is that you renigged on the above by stating things like the following:

”Resticon” wrote: Unless if, by creating a stance that is too rigid for people to accept, you force them away instead of giving people with similar ideals but different religions a place to find peace and acceptance. When you turn people away for being too rigid, you are still losing them, just for the opposite reason...an I personally believe it's those people who need more help. There are hundreds of rigid religions that exist out there. Why can't there be ours which accepts everyone and helps to guide them to their own path, little at a time.

”Alethea” wrote: Then why call it Jediism? There is a word for people that do this, New Age Spiritualists. They allow you to believe whatever you want while cultivating the spiritual aspect using a variety of different methods from occult beliefs. Just sayin'.

After your post of what it means to be a Jedi (first quote) you dove off and made the statement at every turn that really the Jedi Code and Jedi Creed do not matter in the grand scheme of the Jedi Path. This is what I kept reading with everything you posted “If the Jedi Code and Creed became too rigid for people to accept, you force them away instead of giving them similar ideals but different religions a place to find peace and acceptance.” That “if the Jedi Code and Jedi Creed becomes too rigid, we should just get rid of it because we would have no way of helping people anymore if we didn't, but we would still be Jedi.”

To which my retort was- there are already places which you can find that, so why not BE that, if the Jedi Code and the Jedi Creed have no value to you?

If you had stuck with the original statement, that you do hold people to adhere by the Jedi Code and Jedi Creed and then explained exactly what the code and creed meant, using it to describe the Jedi Path, then you would have gotten much different results.

Alethea, had you slowly introduced the idea behind unification to the members here instead of dropping it in our laps only to then throw insults at members who weren't "down" with the idea, you may have had better results. I am not entirely against there being a standard for those quick to call themselves "Jedi", I've stated my opinions on "instant Jedi" before and recently I might add, but your going about it the wrong way. You get more flies with honey than bleach...