Caterpillars Blowing Smoke

ren wrote: Well, that's great and all, but at the end of the day, we have Arcade here basically asking people not to communicate with him because he can't handle it. I think this proves his method of being polite is in fact preventing communication.

Actually, I think what hes asking is people not bother replying to him if their modus is to tear him down. Cade loves to talk to people, loves to learn and gets a kick out of stimulating conversation. Which is pretty much what we would all like.

Hes highlighting something that clearly other members of the temple feel too.

It personally doesnt bug me. But then I am bolshy enough to respond in kind, not everyone is.

Negative emotions are the devil, your being controlled by the agitator, repent!!!! :S :huh:

... but seriously, it can be a result that increased compassion arises from spiritual training (it did with me) and so it's often in the mystic's path to think and act in a certain way (from my experience and observations at least). If some people find that offensive, and want to get angry about a persons compassion and restraint, then I'd rather ignore them too!!!

So I dont think it's a sign of weakness necessarily, and perhaps its not that some people 'cant handle it' but choose not to handle it - for any number of reasons. The problem to me seems to be that the other person takes it personally as an insult, and uses it to get angry and defensive, seemingly as attention seeking behaviour or to reinforce some aspect of self image, unless its some deliberate agenda.

If it continues as a problem I guess an easy solution is for the really good conversation stuff to be posted in the Initiate and Apprentice forum sections, where access is more limited but of course it should never replace public discussion as the main discussion area, IMO.

Adder wrote:

ren wrote: For example if Arcade tells me "sweet" things instead of what he really thinks, what he does is either:
-Hide his true opinion from me on purpose (which is alarming, especially for the kind of stuff we discuss at totjo. These aren't negotiations with world peace at stake)
-Believe that I am in some way not capable of understanding what he truly means to say.
-Rob me of an opportunity to give some thoughts to his ideas and react to them (positively or negatively).

IMO your wrong there, and that could be the basis of why that behaviour annoys some people. Perhaps re-evaluate and adjust if you want better results, as what I see is a presumption by you to know someone might be hiding an opinion simply because they adjust their speech to facilitate calm discussion. Your belief in that particular logic structure (which is a direct victim mentality assumption of 1. other person bad, 2. other person not trusting me, 3. other person stealing from me) could generate an defensive emotional momentum within you, causing you to blame them for what really is an entirely imagined insult, IMO. The stories we whisper to ourselves quietly are the loudest sounds we'll hear.

Wow wow. I don't feel insulted by arcade. "most insulting" doesn't mean there is actual insult. I am well aware i have a strong aversion to things that are in some way altered for me, but let me tell you here and now, there is nothing you, me, or anyone else can do about it. (also I like it this way) I will never like people who aren't straight with me. I guess in a way I am very old fashioned, having been with only one woman in my adult life, having few friends instead of the plethoras other people have on facebook (on which I do not have an account, and I've been online 20 years now) and whatnot... I was a "socialite" of sorts once, and despite all the free sex I still thought it was all meaningless. But those other people, I have for life. If one of my friends were to believe something I do is wrong yet failed to notify me, I would stop considering them a friend. And it just doesn't happen.

Adder wrote:

ren wrote: Well, that's great and all, but at the end of the day, we have Arcade here basically asking people not to communicate with him because he can't handle it. I think this proves his method of being polite is in fact preventing communication.

You ok ren? I imagine you realise your insulting people in public so I wonder why.... its not needed to have to achieve the discussion.

Where's the insult?

Implying Arcade wasn't being honest for starters...

ren wrote: Wow wow. I don't feel insulted by arcade. "most insulting" doesn't mean there is actual insult. I am well aware i have a strong aversion to things that are in some way altered for me, but let me tell you here and now, there is nothing you, me, or anyone else can do about it. (also I like it this way) I will never like people who aren't straight with me.

Ok, seems a bit contradictory, but if your not insulted then it would be less likely you'd be insulting other people perhaps....

ren wrote: Where's the insult?

Well no-one has complained of an insult to me yet, but it seems like your bullying Cade because you keep using him as an example in your posts, where you seem to be saying some people are fake and weak.

It 'seems' to me your either insulting him directly by saying he cant handle it in post 154169, or insulting him by passing on contents of a PM where he might have said he cant handle it. Likewise in post 154136, where your saying he changes his speech to protect his audience, which you call manipulative. I'm not aware of where he has said that in public here, I might have missed it, but it would seem your either making it up or passing on his words from a PM either way I find that behavior insulting.

Further, given that I know he is having a rough time now and asked to stop hearing from you - for you to continue to do this in a public forum makes me question your welfare and integrity.

Let me know if I'm wrong of course, but I do know you like to be told how people see it.

I've been away for a while so I can't appreciate the history to all this and I understand the need to step in and defend others when we feel it is required. However, I also think that we need to step back and be wary that it doesn't turn into this:

http://youtu.be/zrzMhU_4m-g

He's asked to stop hearing from me? We were Pming, less than 24 hours ago.

Also, if arcade tells me what i want to hear instead of telling me what he wants to say, he is being dishonest, in exactly the same way anyone else doing the exact same thing is dishonest.

As I said it is a discussion him and I have had before... There is supposed to be an impasse to be reached, but you guys are nowhere near that... Ah well.

You say me suggesting Arcade is dishonest in "hiding" his true ideas is an "insult". But people only get insulted by things which are true. You reaction here suggests that YOU believe it is true.

I've been waiting for someone to wonder about the balance between honesty with self and with others, and whether we should serve the self before or after others, etc.

But most importantly....

ren wrote:

I don't enjoy constant petty semantic debate, or to be made to feel like an idiot for having a new or unformed idea

See, whenever I come up with the crazy stuff i regularly come up with, whenever people are acting touchy-feely or go into that "oh ren is being gross again" mode I just shove it in their face even more.
I discussed this with arcade before actually. He's the kind of person who likes to adapt his speech to his audience, to uh, protect their feelings and such... Not realizing that to me, it's probably one of the most offensive things he could ever do.

Why do you guys keep on asking for it?

I've chatted with him several times, can't say I notice him being two faced, or any different then since he's been a member in the forums. You seem to place a whole lotta expectations and/or assumptions on people, let it go for christs sake...

I've never noticed him being two-faced either, or ever making such a claim about him.