TOTJO Circle... Lets get this decided...

Jon wrote: I personally see no reason to change the symbol

Nobody's talking about changing it. We're just arguing over what it currently is.

Jon wrote: This is not about esthetics but about unity and what we represent.

If it's not at least a little about aesthetics, then you're never ever going to have a good logo. Lots of people make logos every day that "represent" them with no thought to aesthetics, and it winds up looking terrible.

Jestor wrote: This post made in the other thread, but I copy/pasted, so as to not derail the thread, and take away from the art...

Forgive the confusion...

Akkarin wrote: One of my pet annoyances with the Councillor badge is that it has a different central colour for the TotJO symbol than the rest - the colours are white and black for a reason

Having the symbol the same is unifying in my view so that's all that I would change

Wonderful work though!

Does the circle matter?

lol...

I said it did in the other thread about the symbol, when we started with the ecards...

Others said 'no'...

So, perhaps council needs to define it, as to whether the circle must be included...

Right now, in these designs (I feel like an art critic missing the point of the art, and instead, focusing too much on the symbols shown, lol) show the black outline, and then the 'background bleeds through the center of the star (most of them do, I dont think the councillor does)

Basically, if the 'black and white matter, then I request we use it everywhere, starting with the symbol at the top of our page....

But, lets hear from everyone before we take it to Council...

If it not about changing it Steam boat then please explain to me what Master Jestor is proposing. I am always open to understanding, please explain? May be it is not about aesthetics because we already have a good logo?

I could be wrong (it happens) but I thought this was initially about the color scheme...

Jon wrote: If it not about changing it Steam boat then please explain to me what Master Jestor is proposing. I am always open to understanding, please explain? May be it is not about aesthetics because we already have a good logo?

Jestor was discussing Akkarin's belief that the symbol for official uses should always be black-and-white and always have the circle, at least in regards to the badges. With which I wholly and vehemently disagree, which lead to a (second) discussion on what the symbol actually is, at its core, with people saying it's totally invalid if it doesn't have the circle, or it's not black and white, or whatever.

All of which are a serious cramp on artistic and aesthetic versatility, and really, don't do anything extra to reinforce the meaning of the logo. But w/e.

Kamizu wrote: I like the logo. I like it in the black-and-white. It's simple, it's recognizable, and it's meaningful. I'd say keep the circle. It's a symbol found in many religions in a meaningful way. I think it's a great device to contain the black.

To expand on my comment, I mean the black-and-white for the official 'front page' and top of the page bar. The use of other colors anywhere else I don't see an issue with. Such as the rank bars that were posted earlier. Or any alternate 'artistic' use. I just think the space associations should be maintained (like with the black and white). Two strongly different colors. And to do so, I think the circle should stay apart of it.

Sorry people, I meant no harm to get off track, simply pointing out negative connotations symbols may take over time. I accept the truth as you see it Kit, and Ve, can you accept and not deny my truth? :blush: I intend to keep this topic on point, which was all I was making, a point. I think everything else I spoke of held more weight than the Iron Cross part. Ok back to convo-

Llama Su wrote: Sorry people, I meant no harm to get off track, simply pointing out negative connotations symbols may take over time. I accept the truth as you see it Kit, and Ve, can you accept and not deny my truth? :blush: I intend to keep this topic on point, which was all I was making, a point. I think everything else I spoke of held more weight than the Iron Cross part. Ok back to convo-

*hugs* I have no issues with your point Llama I understand the spirit of your message. I just wanted to ...fix? your facts a little is all. I carry the Iron Cross in my personal Coat of Arms I guess I got a little protective I'm sorry! I didn't intend it to mitigate your point!

I think we should all just let sleeping Wesclis lie!

I guess I should weigh in, I can easily make any changes you want sense it was done in layers on photoshop.

But in my opinion, you'll never settle an opinion on what art should be since art is more about holding a mirror up to yourself and seeing what reflects back, like a rorschach test. One person can see the black and white symbol as good vs evil, while another person could see duality, and yet another person might only see the black and another only see the white. Some will see it as tradition and a link to the past. While other will see it as only the first version of progresse to be made.

A symbol only needs to be recognizable, and we shouldn't have to trademark it unless we are worried about other people pretending to be us. Which one day me might.

Very wise point Vesha, something which I was attempting to allude to...