2020 Protests

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01 Jun 2020 00:02 #352394 by
Replied by on topic 2020 Protests
I will say this. Do I personally agree with the concept of using violence to achieve one's goals? No. HOWEVER, do I understand why and what drove us to this point and do I understand that what happened was BEYOND morally wrong and SOMETHING, preferably the officer(s) involved being arrested, needs to be done to rectify this atrocity? AB. SOLE. LUTELY.

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01 Jun 2020 01:01 #352397 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic 2020 Protests
Yea if they want to start fires and send a cloud over society all while causing actual civil disruption, then peaceful protests and the creation and management of burning roadblocks is the best bet.... as the looting and anti-Police aggression is counter-productive to their cause IMO.

Burning roadblocks can be numerous, effective, controlled, sustained and have the same disruptive impact without the risk of disenfranchising supporters or escalating the issues beyond its intended scope. To go from peaceful protests to outright anarchy is a bit silly, but they seem a bit young so that makes sense I guess. Shame that in places those over the top actions are undermining their message. IMO.

As to the issue, I'd need to see the whole video from start to end and know why the Officer thinks he had to do that, and consider other influencing factors. I get it was a big guy, but surely they have techniques to control that don't require choking someone out.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
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01 Jun 2020 01:45 #352398 by Kohadre
Replied by Kohadre on topic 2020 Protests

Adder wrote: As to the issue, I'd need to see the whole video from start to end and know why the Officer thinks he had to do that, and consider other influencing factors. I get it was a big guy, but surely they have techniques to control that don't require choking someone out.


Judging by the grin on his face within the video mentioned, I don't think "had" really had much to do with what transpired. At some point, the officer(s) decided that he (they) wanted to kill Floyd, and proceeded to do exactly that; understanding that bystanders had neither the legal capacity to intervene, nor the adequate weaponry to do so in match to the fully loaded sidearm present on each officer.

The police forces nationwide have, at the time of this counting; murdered a reported 1093 individuals. This compares to the currently counted 532 victims which have died as an outcome of mass shootings.

For quick math, police have killed over twice the number of Americans that have been killed in mass shootings.

They want to, they can, and so they do.

So long and thanks for all the fish
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01 Jun 2020 01:59 #352399 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic 2020 Protests
I think there is (in general) this idea that there are two sides to every story. Which may be the case. It's just that George Floyd doesn't get to tell his story, and neither do the countless others that have died at the hands of police.

In my job we are trained in de-escalating. We are not allowed to put our hands on a client. We who are without lethal power have that stop gap. How much more should officers be trained in and use de-escalation?

Pax Per Ministerium
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01 Jun 2020 04:16 - 01 Jun 2020 04:19 #352403 by
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The one question I always have, and could be due to simple ignorance, is what should we do? With this as the example, what do the protestors want us to do? I know the cop in question was arrested, please correct me if I am wrong, but what do they want beyond that? If anything? I am hoping it will deescalate with the cops arrest, as that is something that I definitely think was 1000% warranted.

EDIT: For clarification I mean more so in what can we do. I am not the greatest at phrasing questions, but with that in mind do they want a law passed to prevent this? If so, what and how would it be enforced? There are so many questions I hope get answered when this is over or at least more civil.
Last edit: 01 Jun 2020 04:19 by . Reason: Clarification

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01 Jun 2020 04:46 - 01 Jun 2020 04:48 #352404 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic 2020 Protests
Saw an interview yesterday by a Australian reporter to a protester there, and that was asked... the answer was a prosecution was wanted, as charges are often laid but only slaps on wrists given (apparently).

The obvious issue with that is due process takes time, but that detail gets segwayed by the other narratives around this sensitive topic. Next thing you know its all Police are racist warmongers and they're out to kill you so lets burn everything down and kick heads in as if its a solution to the problem, and as if that was the problem to begin with. The whole starting fires to distract from the match, because the match is either not big enough or burns too slow, for the desired purpose.

Obviously not helped when even the prosecutions take a long time, or don't happen! The main go-to seems to be that cultural racism still exists and some sort of solution either doesn't exist or doesn't exist yet. I'm not sure these protesters are really pretending to have an answer though for what they see as the problem, but rather appealing to those who can do something about (at any level) to ensure they do do something about it, from the individual up. Unfortunately I'm not sure those that don't, will see this as anything more than justification for their own entrenched bigotry, so it seem's a little off the mark... but perhaps it still has usefulness!? Worth a shot so long as no-one gets hurt, no pun intended.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 01 Jun 2020 04:48 by Adder.
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01 Jun 2020 05:26 - 01 Jun 2020 05:28 #352405 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic 2020 Protests
Below this text is a spoiler of the names of African Americans killed either by cops or those trying to be cops:

Warning: Spoiler!


The frustrating thing about this is not that it has happened. But that this happens with such regularity, with aquitals, with slaps on the wrist, with not even going to trial, that it produces helplessness, feelings of powerlessness.

If you'll look here at the chart at this link, this is a timeline of African American history in America
https://images.app.goo.gl/PeB89jveDL5hCxw4A

I'm not really asking you to look at it from the perspective of an African American. Consider that for all those years the following ideas have been conditioned in our society concerning us:

We are three-fifths of a person: : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Fifths_Compromise (colloquially 3/5ths of a person)

We have no right which white men are bound to respect: http://bostonreview.net/law-justice/walter-johnson-no-rights-which-white-man-bound-respect

That we are some how not a part of the human family:
See David Walker's Appeal in which he says:

"But to prove farther that the condition of the Israelites was better under the Egyptians than ours is
under the whites. I call upon the professing Christians, I call upon the philanthropist, I call upon the
very tyrant himself, to show me a page of history, either sacred or profane, on which a verse can be found,
which maintains, that the Egyptians heaped the insupportable insult upon the children of Israel, by telling them that they were not of the human family. Can
the whites deny this charge? Have they not, after having reduced us to the deplorable condition of slaves
under their feet, held us up as descending originally
from the tribes of Monkeys or Orang- Outangs?O! my
God! I appeal to every man of feeling—is not this insupportable?"

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=zeaamericanstudies

Pax Per Ministerium
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Last edit: 01 Jun 2020 05:28 by Rosalyn J.
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01 Jun 2020 06:23 #352407 by
Replied by on topic 2020 Protests
Oh all of those things are horrible actions, and I don't know anyone who deny that. The problem I mostly see though is that this doesn't seem to be a legal issue as much as it is a social issue. Again this just from where I happen to sit.

If I had to outline my "question" per say, it would be this:

Problem (currently): shitty cop murders an innocent man.
Solution: Punish the person, or people, responsible

Now the question seems to be what else can we do beyond that legally speaking?

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01 Jun 2020 12:53 - 01 Jun 2020 12:54 #352413 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic 2020 Protests
I don't believe violence is justified. Peaceful protest is, but the looting and destruction etc. is a shameful distraction from the message that protestors are trying to make. London saw the same thing in 2011 and I don't think it's wrong to say that it's easy to remember the riots, more difficult to remember the name of the man whose death sparked it.

I have a strong suspicion however that many people, not just black men, are losing their lives to police brutality. This protest seems like it should be a matter that all are interested in, regardless of race.

It won't let me have a blank signature ...
Last edit: 01 Jun 2020 12:54 by Edan.
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01 Jun 2020 13:58 #352415 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic 2020 Protests
“ Its a sad day when racism is needed to receive justice. Racism will never leave till it’s need is quenched.”

I don’t use color any more to describe people. It helps the inside of me. If one person harmed another - consequences are expected. Should cops have gotten in trouble for not doing the right thing? Yup- sad we needed to use the “race” card and violence and receive what was due. Thar in itself makes me sad.

Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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