2020 Protests

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01 Jun 2020 00:02 #352394 by
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I will say this. Do I personally agree with the concept of using violence to achieve one's goals? No. HOWEVER, do I understand why and what drove us to this point and do I understand that what happened was BEYOND morally wrong and SOMETHING, preferably the officer(s) involved being arrested, needs to be done to rectify this atrocity? AB. SOLE. LUTELY.

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01 Jun 2020 01:01 #352397 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic 2020 Protests
Yea if they want to start fires and send a cloud over society all while causing actual civil disruption, then peaceful protests and the creation and management of burning roadblocks is the best bet.... as the looting and anti-Police aggression is counter-productive to their cause IMO.

Burning roadblocks can be numerous, effective, controlled, sustained and have the same disruptive impact without the risk of disenfranchising supporters or escalating the issues beyond its intended scope. To go from peaceful protests to outright anarchy is a bit silly, but they seem a bit young so that makes sense I guess. Shame that in places those over the top actions are undermining their message. IMO.

As to the issue, I'd need to see the whole video from start to end and know why the Officer thinks he had to do that, and consider other influencing factors. I get it was a big guy, but surely they have techniques to control that don't require choking someone out.
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01 Jun 2020 01:45 #352398 by Kohadre
Replied by Kohadre on topic 2020 Protests

Adder wrote: As to the issue, I'd need to see the whole video from start to end and know why the Officer thinks he had to do that, and consider other influencing factors. I get it was a big guy, but surely they have techniques to control that don't require choking someone out.


Judging by the grin on his face within the video mentioned, I don't think "had" really had much to do with what transpired. At some point, the officer(s) decided that he (they) wanted to kill Floyd, and proceeded to do exactly that; understanding that bystanders had neither the legal capacity to intervene, nor the adequate weaponry to do so in match to the fully loaded sidearm present on each officer.

The police forces nationwide have, at the time of this counting; murdered a reported 1093 individuals. This compares to the currently counted 532 victims which have died as an outcome of mass shootings.

For quick math, police have killed over twice the number of Americans that have been killed in mass shootings.

They want to, they can, and so they do.
So long and thanks for all the fish
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01 Jun 2020 01:59 #352399 by RosalynJ
Replied by RosalynJ on topic 2020 Protests
I think there is (in general) this idea that there are two sides to every story. Which may be the case. It's just that George Floyd doesn't get to tell his story, and neither do the countless others that have died at the hands of police.

In my job we are trained in de-escalating. We are not allowed to put our hands on a client. We who are without lethal power have that stop gap. How much more should officers be trained in and use de-escalation?
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01 Jun 2020 04:16 - 01 Jun 2020 04:19 #352403 by
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The one question I always have, and could be due to simple ignorance, is what should we do? With this as the example, what do the protestors want us to do? I know the cop in question was arrested, please correct me if I am wrong, but what do they want beyond that? If anything? I am hoping it will deescalate with the cops arrest, as that is something that I definitely think was 1000% warranted.

EDIT: For clarification I mean more so in what can we do. I am not the greatest at phrasing questions, but with that in mind do they want a law passed to prevent this? If so, what and how would it be enforced? There are so many questions I hope get answered when this is over or at least more civil.
Last edit: 01 Jun 2020 04:19 by . Reason: Clarification

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01 Jun 2020 04:46 - 01 Jun 2020 04:48 #352404 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic 2020 Protests
Saw an interview yesterday by a Australian reporter to a protester there, and that was asked... the answer was a prosecution was wanted, as charges are often laid but only slaps on wrists given (apparently).

The obvious issue with that is due process takes time, but that detail gets segwayed by the other narratives around this sensitive topic. Next thing you know its all Police are racist warmongers and they're out to kill you so lets burn everything down and kick heads in as if its a solution to the problem, and as if that was the problem to begin with. The whole starting fires to distract from the match, because the match is either not big enough or burns too slow, for the desired purpose.

Obviously not helped when even the prosecutions take a long time, or don't happen! The main go-to seems to be that cultural racism still exists and some sort of solution either doesn't exist or doesn't exist yet. I'm not sure these protesters are really pretending to have an answer though for what they see as the problem, but rather appealing to those who can do something about (at any level) to ensure they do do something about it, from the individual up. Unfortunately I'm not sure those that don't, will see this as anything more than justification for their own entrenched bigotry, so it seem's a little off the mark... but perhaps it still has usefulness!? Worth a shot so long as no-one gets hurt, no pun intended.
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Last edit: 01 Jun 2020 04:48 by Adder.
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01 Jun 2020 05:26 - 01 Jun 2020 05:28 #352405 by RosalynJ
Replied by RosalynJ on topic 2020 Protests
Below this text is a spoiler of the names of African Americans killed either by cops or those trying to be cops:

Warning: Spoiler!


The frustrating thing about this is not that it has happened. But that this happens with such regularity, with aquitals, with slaps on the wrist, with not even going to trial, that it produces helplessness, feelings of powerlessness.

If you'll look here at the chart at this link, this is a timeline of African American history in America
https://images.app.goo.gl/PeB89jveDL5hCxw4A

I'm not really asking you to look at it from the perspective of an African American. Consider that for all those years the following ideas have been conditioned in our society concerning us:

We are three-fifths of a person: : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Fifths_Compromise (colloquially 3/5ths of a person)

We have no right which white men are bound to respect: http://bostonreview.net/law-justice/walter-johnson-no-rights-which-white-man-bound-respect

That we are some how not a part of the human family:
See David Walker's Appeal in which he says:

"But to prove farther that the condition of the Israelites was better under the Egyptians than ours is
under the whites. I call upon the professing Christians, I call upon the philanthropist, I call upon the
very tyrant himself, to show me a page of history, either sacred or profane, on which a verse can be found,
which maintains, that the Egyptians heaped the insupportable insult upon the children of Israel, by telling them that they were not of the human family. Can
the whites deny this charge? Have they not, after having reduced us to the deplorable condition of slaves
under their feet, held us up as descending originally
from the tribes of Monkeys or Orang- Outangs?O! my
God! I appeal to every man of feeling—is not this insupportable?"

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=zeaamericanstudies
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Last edit: 01 Jun 2020 05:28 by RosalynJ.
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01 Jun 2020 06:23 #352407 by
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Oh all of those things are horrible actions, and I don't know anyone who deny that. The problem I mostly see though is that this doesn't seem to be a legal issue as much as it is a social issue. Again this just from where I happen to sit.

If I had to outline my "question" per say, it would be this:

Problem (currently): shitty cop murders an innocent man.
Solution: Punish the person, or people, responsible

Now the question seems to be what else can we do beyond that legally speaking?

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01 Jun 2020 12:53 - 01 Jun 2020 12:54 #352413 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic 2020 Protests
I don't believe violence is justified. Peaceful protest is, but the looting and destruction etc. is a shameful distraction from the message that protestors are trying to make. London saw the same thing in 2011 and I don't think it's wrong to say that it's easy to remember the riots, more difficult to remember the name of the man whose death sparked it.

I have a strong suspicion however that many people, not just black men, are losing their lives to police brutality. This protest seems like it should be a matter that all are interested in, regardless of race.
"Evil is always possible. And goodness is eternally difficult."
Last edit: 01 Jun 2020 12:54 by Edan.
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01 Jun 2020 13:58 #352415 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic 2020 Protests
“ Its a sad day when racism is needed to receive justice. Racism will never leave till it’s need is quenched.”

I don’t use color any more to describe people. It helps the inside of me. If one person harmed another - consequences are expected. Should cops have gotten in trouble for not doing the right thing? Yup- sad we needed to use the “race” card and violence and receive what was due. Thar in itself makes me sad.
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Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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01 Jun 2020 15:05 - 01 Jun 2020 17:23 #352419 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic 2020 Protests
A closer look at the root cause of at least some of the violence and property damage at these protests

Exhibit A
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/its-setup-mysteriously-staged-bricks-appear-throughout-major-protest-cities

Exhibit B
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2020/05/31/watch-video-from-around-the-country-shows-antifa-thugs-hijacking-george-floyd-pr-n2569761

Exhibit C
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/law-enforcement-plays-catch-stop-violence-radical-groups-protests-n1220486
People are complicated.
Last edit: 01 Jun 2020 17:23 by OB1Shinobi.
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01 Jun 2020 21:16 #352423 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic 2020 Protests
Just an FYI for our “any means necessary” members. Ive seen many clips of protestors attacking people. Im pretty sure Ive seen at least one person murdered. This is probably the least brutal one that ive encountered but warning to the more sensitive members of the community, its not easy to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN6vLAZKuEI

Here is George Floyds brother calling for peaceful protests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgTj33YsqE
People are complicated.
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02 Jun 2020 00:19 - 02 Jun 2020 00:41 #352426 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic 2020 Protests
A powerful and useful speech by Killer Mike. If you dont know who he is, dont let the name fool you. This man is very intelligent and very well informed, and he is speaking from the heart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy9io6VEt58
People are complicated.
Last edit: 02 Jun 2020 00:41 by OB1Shinobi.
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02 Jun 2020 14:35 - 02 Jun 2020 14:41 #352440 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic 2020 Protests
Human nature often takes me for so many journeys. Such events have happened at my very doorstep. I’ve watched human vs human. My family hears and sees violence ... right down the road. We saw the carnage of the aftermath in our town. The children have questions - parents please have answers. Take the time out for YOUR family - take the needed time.

Every one.

I grew up in street wars and violence as a part of equations and normality. I went to war a few times. Seeing unrest in my homeland has broken my heart in a few ways that can mend as before but dang - just watching and witnessing actions like these - open street brawls and sirens and mayhem... as a VET I hope my kids never got to see it so close. I’m good - I know a lot of my buddies ARNT. This looks like a set up. The longer information comes out... but that’s me. I can’t ever say who nor blame but I will stand firm - I know when I smell a rat...

Complacency and Hubris often dance hard all night.

I am loving the fact that some people can say for the record “that’s not me” it’s a old school technique called logging - think about it - that guy right there - that’s not me - just in case you were wondering.

Personally

Truly I didn’t know any one at the few rally’s that were held in our town and we saw a caravan of people come into town , where it happened - it went over the radio, every one was warned. Paces are closing early for this. It’s not us... is all I can validate.
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Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Last edit: 02 Jun 2020 14:41 by Carlos.Martinez3.
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02 Jun 2020 19:41 - 02 Jun 2020 19:42 #352454 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic 2020 Protests
Whether you want to say its Antifa or the alt-right/white supremacists, or the mafia or the cia or the Russians or whatever, there is a non-organic element that is exploiting these protests as an opportunity to cause anarchy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_nikV7vYgg
People are complicated.
Last edit: 02 Jun 2020 19:42 by OB1Shinobi.
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02 Jun 2020 19:51 #352455 by RosalynJ
Replied by RosalynJ on topic 2020 Protests

OB1Shinobi wrote: Whether you want to say its Antifa or the alt-right/white supremacists, or the mafia or the cia or the Russians or whatever, there is a non-organic element that is exploiting these protests as an opportunity to cause anarchy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_nikV7vYgg


This has been the case since Traeyvon Martin. I'm not an any means type of person

But when my ancestors were quietly singing and marching and sitting the "system" still functioned.
When Kapernic took a knee people (who I actually know) were disgusted at the anti-patriotism and denying the message sent.

So yeah, my video might have ruffled a few feathers. I don't apologize. Every time this happens I and my friends and family feel closer to untimely death

No matter what this looks like, we can't let it detract from the real issue.

A man was murdered by a "Peace Officer" and the President has said "looters" will be shot and I just wonder if people are going to have a bit more target practice with my brothers and sisters.

I'm frustrated this story keeps playing out with life after life. Of course I can't breathe
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02 Jun 2020 20:51 - 02 Jun 2020 20:52 #352458 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic 2020 Protests
You definitely didnt ruffle my feathers, Rosalyn. I support this movement whole-heartedly. Cops need to be held accountable for what they do and the nation needs to show black people that they really are a part of it.

Im bringing the Antifa thing to attention because i feel they're hijacking the movement and turning it into something that it wasn't intended to be and i want that to be recognized.
People are complicated.
Last edit: 02 Jun 2020 20:52 by OB1Shinobi.
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03 Jun 2020 02:27 #352466 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic 2020 Protests
There definitely have been third parties seeking to exploit this. A guy was caught in my area trying to get people to flip parked cars, and the protestors tried to apprehend him and hand him over.

Accountability for police (especially given our currently very shoot-first-and-think-later jurisprudence regarding qualified immunity) is an insanely important idea that shouldn't be partisan at all. Regardless of what you think of antifa, far right groups, etc. the blatant violations of civil rights in reckless disregard of statute (including curfew orders) ought to worry everyone. You should not be tazed and ripped out of your car for driving while black (Atlanta), shot at for sitting on your porch (which is legal in curfew) (AZ), or brutalized by police while showing your press credentials (Washington DC).
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03 Jun 2020 18:22 #352479 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic 2020 Protests
Management


This is my meat and potatoes

Last night in my local area after the protesters who were organized by the Actual Black Life’s Matter association here - after they left last night ANOTHER group of people vandalized ALOT of things. It was pretty obvious. That’s a benift of good management and good organization.

There are people still getting sick and people are still dying. Kids can’t go to school and there fighting in the streets.
Seems like it happened overnight
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Build, not tear down.
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03 Jun 2020 21:20 #352489 by
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It is very sad to see the pain that we go through Until we all learn to love each other more than we love ourselves or I should say at least the same

My statements are probably outdated but when I graduated The sheriff's department.
It was After the Rodney king incident so we have a lot of knowledge on what not to do.

It's kind of funny you start out being taught to be peace officers and your diploma actually says peace officer.
But as soon as you get in a car now you are transformed into a Law enforcement. enforcing every infraction without question
And overcoming any opposition no matter what the cost.

It's really a mindset they need to start Changing.
when we're kids and then of course they need to change the core curriculum in lawinforcment training.

And be trained in that they are public servants and not the masters.

Even the 1st kings of Israel were commanded to read the law day-and-night so that way they didn't think their head was above anyone else's


It's going to be another hard lesson but I continued to believe we are all one.

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