Gun Control

For the same reason that 1 in every 40 cars you see is someone driving without a license and no one ever finds out about it until they do something wrong. I can say for me personally about half of the car accidents I often go to someone was driving without a valid license. tests, certificates, etc they work for the average person, but if someone is committed to causing an offense it doesn't stop anything, and it never will.

A great response. However, let me push back a little. A lot of drivers who get caught without a license have had licenses at one point; whether they've been suspended or or forgot to renew or whatever. I've been there, done that; even went to jail for it. Cars are not only regulated through licensing but also registration and title. When a car changes hands we can see a record of who has owned it. And let's be clear, cars are not designed to kill people. Cars are designed to protect people in case of accidents. On the other hand, guns were actually designed to kill. For a gun the accident is when it doesn't fire.

In the case of a speeding ticket it, of course, follows the driver. In the case of an accident the vehicle's owner is responsible. So let's say you get caught with a gun that doesn't belong to you. You should pay whatever fines or consequences for that. But if you kill someone then whoever the owner is should have to account somehow whether it is financially (responsible for the funeral costs) or actually serve time. Because one of the problems you mentioned has a lot to do with us, as a society, not caring who we either sell guns to or what happens after the gun is sold. But there is a reason why a car dealer wants to make sure you have insurance before they hand over the car. Guns are not held to anywhere close to that standard. And like I said... they are designed to kill people.

So is it too much to ask that guns be treated the same? License, registration, title, testing, etc. ? I'm not against everyone owning guns but rather I'm for people being responsible with and for whatever they own. And if it can kill people it should be regulated. Even food is regulated. If something is wrong with a cabbage they can trace it back to the farm it came from. Would this prevent gun violence? I do believe so. A lot of people drive without a license because they have to in order to get to work and other places. But if gun owners and manufacturers were afraid of the consequences of losing track of their guns, being sued for wrongful death, etc. My keys have a keysmart thing that my keys are on that has tile built in so I can find my keys. They can keep track of guns if they really wanted to.

We will never know how many lives have been saved because of street lights, stop signs, cross walks, side walks, turn signals, seat belts, drunk driving laws, sobriety check points, and the list goes on and on. I think its safe to say and I think we can all agree that we've prevented "some" casualties related to driving. And all of these things work together to protect human life. I may have driven with a suspended license but I was also punished for it and although I'm not the safest driver aside from barely tapping another car in a parking lot at age 16 I've never hit another vehicle. But it's like we care more about property damage than human lives and it is frustrating to me that we're not doing more.

I'm also glad that Ren brought up insurance. Cars have to be insured for the possibility of causing damage. What if every gun had to be insured? What if the insurance company had different rates based on a risk assessment? What if insurance companies periodically checked on you and offered lower rates for complete psych evals? You want a fully automatic AK-47 for some reason? Fine. Pay $100/mo. for insurance. Even if one argues it's their right to own a gun, there's nothing that says you have to be able to afford it. But honestly, AKs should only be sold to military. I wouldn't even let police officers buy them. There's just no domestic purpose and if someone says "militia" I already said I'm in favor of creating an official one so that those people can buy sufficient weapons to actually do what it says in the Constitution.

Squint wrote: Where is driving a right? What statistics do you have to show that we don't need vehicular regulation. What would stop over-fishing if it wasn't licensed?

More animals would go extinct and possibly the whole ecosystem would be in danger if hunting and fishing weren't regulated. I mean... did anyone see The Lion King?

Uzima Moto wrote: The right to Life, liberty, property, and the means to defend them are as natural as leaves on the trees..

Freedom isn't abstract, it's a legal reality. Driving isn't a privilege, it's a right. Just like voting, vaping, fishing, hunting, rain-collection, and a myriad of other non-aggressive activities. America needs gun control as much as it needs vehicular regulation. Not at all..

If you want the perfect govermnent that will essentially keep society in Utopia. You might as well let them chip you.. that's what they want anyway..

never heard of a right to rain collection. I would ask which amendment is that in but I don't want to come off cheeky. A lot of the things you mentioned have stipulations and requirements. You can't vote for 2 years after a felony. You can't vote outside your district. There's a whole host of regulations that politicians exploit in order to gerrymander and suppress the vote from certain communities. Vaping. Vaping what? A right? Marijuana is still illegal according to federal law. But let's just leave all that aside.

I see you like freedom and I'm for that except freedom has to be balanced with responsibility. "Drink responsibly", "Drive responsibly". If you don't do these things there is a penalty. But let me stop because I agree with you. America needs gun control as much as it needs vehicular regulation. And I will think about that next time I put my seat belt on and stop at a traffic signal or use the painted lines on the road to regulate where I drive. Without all these boundaries and safeguards there would be chaos. And even if you were free you wouldn't feel that way stuck in miles of traffic because of accidents and people driving on lawns to get around other people, etc.

Serious question - what’s the best way to see a Saber belonging to a Jeddist?

Ask them to see it.

As an individual and as a modern day Jeddist - I cary around nothing. Not a thing. Gun control is a hard issue because you can “control” every one. Can’t do it. We all know the more they as law makers may grab the more can slip away. We all know here in the Temple -( I hope) laws are for guides of every day life not every second accountability- or is it ?
Gun control? Taser controls ? Stick and chain controls ? Maybe knife and sword control? What if we just quit being a society who ask so much from so many from every one ? I rarely call the cops - will I call em ? Probly ... after the fact - EMS Firefighters - I’ll call them in a minute but cops - yea ... I stray away from that.
Personally - I rarely drive. There are times I look on the road and it’s painfully clear there is no one actually “looking” at the road - every ones glancing down at their phones ... at the same time - so I tend not to drive a lot.

Zealot, I just want to ask. I live in IL a state that has pretty strict gun regulation.

Do you know any of the steps an average person in IL has to do to get a gun? Do you know about the rights you sign away for a conceal carry permit here?

You understand that automatic weapons are heavily regulated on the federal level. To the point that you either need to be quite wealthy to even apply for the class 3 license which in most cases is only handed to large businesses or historical operations. In all other cases automatic weapons are 100% illegal. Modifying civilian model to automatic can be done but it is actually quite difficult and will often fail and ruin the weapon. '

As for "ghost guns", when you build a rifle from custom order parts to build a weapon upon completion of the weapon you are supposed to report there serial number of the upper receiver to the state (in most states, like 47 of them) as a system of tracking similar to that of a gun you would buy in a shop. Making the owner of an unregistered fire arm a law breaker, so how do you enforce that besides that when found these weapons are taken and destroyed.

I just need to know how much you know of gun control spread through the 50 states, so I can make a counter-argument. I actually am in favor of certain measures being taken but we need to establish the starting line before we get off to the race.

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Gun control? Taser controls ? Stick and chain controls ? Maybe knife and sword control? What if we just quit being a society who ask so much from so many from every one ? I rarely call the cops - will I call em ? Probly ... after the fact - EMS Firefighters - I’ll call them in a minute but cops - yea ... I stray away from that.
Personally - I rarely drive. There are times I look on the road and it’s painfully clear there is no one actually “looking” at the road - every ones glancing down at their phones ... at the same time - so I tend not to drive a lot.

If we only made laws thinking about the average person we would be ignoring the worst behavior. I don't want gun control to control the good people. But it has to be in effect for good people in order to catch bad people. It seems like every 3 months we have a major mass shooting. Each of these shooters "rarely" kills people. So I'm not interested in the rarely because rarely multiplied by tens or hundreds, or thousands, is too often and the casualties are too many.

ZealotX wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Gun control? Taser controls ? Stick and chain controls ? Maybe knife and sword control? What if we just quit being a society who ask so much from so many from every one ? I rarely call the cops - will I call em ? Probly ... after the fact - EMS Firefighters - I’ll call them in a minute but cops - yea ... I stray away from that.
Personally - I rarely drive. There are times I look on the road and it’s painfully clear there is no one actually “looking” at the road - every ones glancing down at their phones ... at the same time - so I tend not to drive a lot.

If we only made laws thinking about the average person we would be ignoring the worst behavior. I don't want gun control to control the good people. But it has to be in effect for good people in order to catch bad people. It seems like every 3 months we have a major mass shooting. Each of these shooters "rarely" kills people. So I'm not interested in the rarely because rarely multiplied by tens or hundreds, or thousands, is too often and the casualties are too many.

Isn’t it those rare moments that makes the headlines? Isn’t the extremes that always make the reasons why ... we have laws? Any case you argue for or against can result in as many “parallel “ situations where one payed attention to the actual laws . I dislike lawbreakers .

Kobos wrote: Zealot, I just want to ask. I live in IL a state that has pretty strict gun regulation.

Do you know any of the steps an average person in IL has to do to get a gun? Do you know about the rights you sign away for a conceal carry permit here?

You understand that automatic weapons are heavily regulated on the federal level. To the point that you either need to be quite wealthy to even apply for the class 3 license which in most cases is only handed to large businesses or historical operations. In all other cases automatic weapons are 100% illegal. Modifying civilian model to automatic can be done but it is actually quite difficult and will often fail and ruin the weapon. '

As for "ghost guns", when you build a rifle from custom order parts to build a weapon upon completion of the weapon you are supposed to report there serial number of the upper receiver to the state (in most states, like 47 of them) as a system of tracking similar to that of a gun you would buy in a shop. Making the owner of an unregistered fire arm a law breaker, so how do you enforce that besides that when found these weapons are taken and destroyed.

I just need to know how much you know of gun control spread through the 50 states, so I can make a counter-argument. I actually am in favor of certain measures being taken but we need to establish the starting line before we get off to the race.

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

Great post. Honestly, I don't consider individual state policies that much in this argument for the simple fact that people will use that to say "oh well its not working in X state". If Fireworks sales are not allowed in your state you can simply drive, usually, to the next state over. Same with guns. I think those regulations in IL are good but if it's not federal then you can simply go to another state or import your guns from another state.

https://thefederalist.com/2017/10/02/actual-federal-laws-regulating-machine-guns-u-s/

hence bump stocks...

As far as concealed carry permits, that's something gun owners following the law will seek. I'm more interested in policies that would prevent mass shootings and easily obtained guns and ammo for criminal activity, not over regulate law abiding citizens.

I personally watched an unstable young man take his gun (probably obtained illegally) and buy ammunition (I drove him in an effort to talk him down) from Walmart so he could shoot his 'baby momma'. And I just kept thinking, it shouldn't be this easy.

Sometimes all people need is time to breathe, calm down, and someone to talk to or vent to. But a lot of people are getting socialized into a basically modern terrorist cells based on hatred and anger. Someone asked this latest shooter, "why are you doing this" and he said "because I'm angry".

Can you stop someone like this? Maybe not. But maybe the idea should be to slow them down so that maybe somewhere in the process of obtaining the weapon or paying for insurance or "Something"... someone can notice, before its too late, that this guy has some ideas that don't mix well with guns. In other words... There's motive and opportunity. If someone already has a motive and you can find it out then I would do everything possible to prevent them from getting a gun. Most other countries don't have this problem. The solution doesn't have to be perfect. Traffic laws aren't perfect. People still die. But if we can prevent even 1 mass shooting, that's enough to me.

If each gun had a title and registration like a car and was tracked it would always have an owner and you could see whether it was currently registered or not. You could see if the owner has a valid license. I would even add some kind of GPS locator that can be triggered by police 1. when an owner reports it missing. 2. trigger all gps chips in a 5 mile radius of a reported crime. They are chipping dogs. Why not guns? And like a body cam on a police officer it doesn't have to be on all the time.

You bring up a good point about people creating their own. In these cases I would keep track of certain materials used to build or customize and would give a person a small window of time to register and have the finished gun sent to the FBI which would then add a serial and send it back. If the person doesn't do that in the window I would launch a full investigation and assess their level of threat. If their threat level was higher than the threshold I would confiscate their guns and any equipment used to make them. In my state even brass knuckles are illegal. I see no reason why we can't have sensible gun control.

Gun regulation at state level makes no sense when there is frictionless movement across state borders.

I think gun insurance is a good idea.