How to Better Look After Newcomers?

I guess I'm not being clear.

I'm not actually confused about why you think you're doing this. It's obvious that it's some kind of attempt at safety (for this kind of church, you'd be better off asking if people have programming backgrounds, because they could hack your site, but I digress). But people who come here with the intent to harm are going to lie in that field and unless you are running actual background checks you will be none the wiser. Meanwhile, you've just made anyone who's ever had a criminal conviction (even if it was years ago when they were young and stupid and got busted with drugs one time) feel uncomfortable and unwelcome.

It's also then obvious that you guys don't believe in a redemptive life arc for people, if you're concerned about something that they did in the past and have since fulfilled their societal obligation for. That's really disappointing.

The purpose of this thread is about newcomers not feeling welcome/supported/what have you. I'm saying, that's not a very welcoming sort of question. If you think it is, by all mean, please go to your local store and roll up on people and ask, "Hey, do you have a criminal record?" My guess is most of the looks you will get will be like this at best:


I mean, that's what I did when I looked at the application, and, as I've said, my record is squeaky clean. I'm cleared to sell securities and to work in schools, both jobs I've had in the past. I've been fingerprinted, DNA tested, drug-tested, you name it. I do anything crooked and law enforcement has the info in their databases to match me up with any evidence I leave behind.

But, Ava, I've never lived anywhere people would know what I did 10 years ago. I've lived in big urban areas all of my life and I've moved and my neighbors have moved. I'm used to people not being all up in my business in any way shape or form. I recognize that people from small towns have a different experience and of course everyone knows everything you did if you lived there your whole life, but we're moving away from that being the standard experience for people.

We're also moving away from this being an acceptable question to even ask on job applications, as more and more states start adopting "ban the box" regulations (like my home state of California just did ),. The "war on drugs," in particular, has left us with as many people with criminal records as college diplomas .

You all can all explain all you want, but my response will remain that it's invasive, in bad form, and doesn't protect you, anyway. If someone had a specific job within the temple that's sensitive, then, by all means, ask for a background check at that point if it's legal to do so. Otherwise, maybe it's better to let some people with redemptive life stores tell you those stories as they get comfortable on their own time?

And, no, we can't fully participate here without it. We're locked out of the Jediism forum unless we fill out the app, which is the forum we're arguably all here for.

*EDITED to add* Also, who can see that information? Clergy only, who are bound by clergy-parishioner privilege, or more? I suspect it's more people than that.

Asking for a criminal is not the same as judging someone for a criminal record.

Nami wrote: Asking for a criminal is not the same as judging someone for a criminal record.

Then why ask in the first place, if you aren't intending to do anything with the information?

Human nature is going to lend itself toward judging, as much as people may try hard not to. You can't un-know that about someone.

Asakura Shoji wrote:

Nami wrote: Asking for a criminal is not the same as judging someone for a criminal record.

Then why ask in the first place, if you aren't intending to do anything with the information?

Human nature is going to lend itself toward judging, as much as people may try hard not to. You can't un-know that about someone.

Its for legal reasons. Anyone who becomes a member can aspire to become a Knight, and as a Knight they are a representative for this place. The TotJO must know if their potential reps have done anything that could reflect badly on them.

Its also part of the teachings. A Jedi has Integrity, so they fess up to the mistakes of the past and grow from it.

Asakura Shoji wrote:

Nami wrote: Asking for a criminal is not the same as judging someone for a criminal record.

Then why ask in the first place, if you aren't intending to do anything with the information?

Human nature is going to lend itself toward judging, as much as people may try hard not to. You can't un-know that about someone.

To cover its legal bases. To make sure that sexual offenders aren't around children.

Also, if someone lies on a membership application, I would argue that they aren't dedicated to Jediism. Honesty is one of the 21 Maxims.

"Honesty: To avoid lies.

A Jedi is honest with themselves and seeks to always go beyond appearances. There can be no honest self without the knowledge and wisdom to see truth."

Asakura Shoji wrote: *EDITED to add* Also, who can see that information? Clergy only, who are bound by clergy-parishioner privilege, or more? I suspect it's more people than that.

Actually, the general Clergy cannot see that information. I don't know the answer to your broader question, although I suspect it would be some or all of the Council (the VP of Membership Affairs for certain), and possibly the Security Officers.

As I recall I never was asked for any of that. But, if they did I have nothing to hide. I have been a member of plenty of churches in my life and most of them never asked for a background check. Except, when I was part of The Lutheran Church (LMS) but,I was ordained a deacon so I can understand.

Arisaig wrote: Its for legal reasons. Anyone who becomes a member can aspire to become a Knight, and as a Knight they are a representative for this place. The TotJO must know if their potential reps have done anything that could reflect badly on them.

Its also part of the teachings. A Jedi has Integrity, so they fess up to the mistakes of the past and grow from it.

Then ask people before they become knights or apprentices, once they've been around long enough to know if this is what they want to do. Once they get to know you and you know them so they can feel comfortable with whatever judgement then occurs. Have it be like one of the Jedi trials in lore. Heck, have people do an actual background check at that point--you can get one for like $20.

I'm reminding you all this is in the "how to better look after newcomers" section. I'm suggesting that this is perhaps not a question for newcomers who just came here to try to learn about Jediism and participate in discussions about it.

Why not then just stay as a guest? Don't go to that member status. If, its invading on your privacy.

Agreed with Sven. There is no requirement to become a member unless you want to move up in this community. You can do the entire IP and participate in a majority of the forums as a guest... and if you want to make the next step after that, then you can submit your application.