Weekday Doctrine Meditations 13:00 utc(Ajax)

(15:05:43) Twigga: 15. Jedi believe in eternal life through the Force. We do not become obsessed in mourning those who pass. We may grieve at their passing but we are content, knowing that they will forever be a part of the Force and so always a part of us.
(15:06:34) Twigga: I dunno how to talk about this one...
(15:08:14) Temple remote: thomaswfaulkner logs into the Chat.
(15:08:39) Twigga: I think it's because I've not really found it a problem, and I'm now questioning whether I should have more of a problem with death than I've had... if that makes sense at all, in any way.
(15:09:39) Rosalyn_J: no yeah, makes sense to me
(15:10:19) Twigga: Everything's getting questioned by IP
(15:10:26) Rosalyn_J: coming from a christian perspective, its at once easy and difficult
(15:10:39) Twigga: Yeah? How so?
(15:10:40) Rosalyn_J: there is no heaven for Jedi
(15:11:12) Twigga: (It did sound really boring... no offense)
(15:11:51) Twigga: (i.e. I probably don't get the concept properly
(15:12:52) Rosalyn_J: me either then
(15:13:42) Twigga: When I see a "belief" statement, I kinda think of "doubt" - that you need one for the other.
(15:14:03) Twigga: It's like and invitation to come wrestle. You might find something.
(15:15:01) Rosalyn_J: oh
(15:15:15) Rosalyn_J: so it has to be deeper for you?
(15:15:34) Twigga: deeper than what?
(15:16:10) Rosalyn_J: as a teaching. 15 has to be deeper? not something that can be easily understood?
(15:16:12) Twigga: being able to say "I believe in the force" and then inside my head screaming "You really have no idea what you're talking about"...
(15:16:23) Rosalyn_J: right
(15:16:27) Twigga: Yeah.
(15:16:36) Rosalyn_J: maybe the force is a way to say that simply
(15:16:52) Rosalyn_J: like I believe in odpjegjrogp[ejrh4iy5hl y'#{we wlq
(15:17:04) Twigga: It's got to be a knowing of a different kind that being able to but words together.
(15:17:31) Rosalyn_J: knowing evolves with the knower I guess
(15:17:40) Twigga: Hmm... I dunno. I think the word stands for something, but it's our job to work that out.
(15:17:49) Rosalyn_J: thats why no one can BE wise
(15:17:58) Twigga:
(15:18:14) Twigga: Gotta keep working?
(15:18:33) Rosalyn_J: gotta keep exploring at least
(15:19:13) Twigga: Nice.
(15:20:36) Twigga: Is this the only belief statement in the teachings?
(15:21:36) Rosalyn_J: im not sure
(15:21:44) Rosalyn_J: let me read it again
(15:22:13) thomaswfaulkner: I do not believe so
(15:22:29) thomaswfaulkner: I know there is one on the belief of love and compassion
(15:22:31) Twigga:
(15:22:33) Rosalyn_J: there is one in 1
(15:23:13) Twigga: Ok - so we have belief in love and eternal life.
(15:23:17) Twigga: Interesting.
(15:23:30) Twigga: :favorite:
(15:23:44) Rosalyn_J: we also have a belief in the Force
(15:23:57) Twigga: And the Jedi believe statement....
(15:24:08) Rosalyn_J: right
(15:24:44) Twigga: So there's quite a lot of things to have challenged, actually, in jediism.
(15:25:16) Rosalyn_J: the entire doctrine can be challenged
(15:25:27) Rosalyn_J: thats how we get our individual flavors
(15:25:31) Twigga: LOADS of things on which to become "educated" both by sharing experiences of others (reading, say) and through our own experiences.
(15:25:55) Rosalyn_J: (nod)
(15:26:09) Twigga: Sure, we can challenge the whole doctrine - but I think belief statements are where doctrine, in my view, challenges us.
(15:26:26) Rosalyn_J: wow
(15:26:29) Twigga: I can't read a "believe" and simply capitulate.
(15:26:33) Rosalyn_J: well
(15:26:45) Rosalyn_J: it depends on where the challenge is needed
(15:26:51) Rosalyn_J: teaching 2
(15:26:59) Rosalyn_J: jedi maintain a clear mind
(15:27:26) Rosalyn_J: if I have a muddy one, the challenge is clearing it, or justifying its muddiness
(15:28:26) Twigga: Meditation is vital; a clear mind however? That just seems beyond me.
(15:29:38) Rosalyn_J: clear mind is needed for decisions
(15:30:00) Twigga: Nah - I make decisions... lots of decisions, I'm sure.
(15:30:23) Twigga: But it might be better with a clear mind I suppose
(15:30:29) Rosalyn_J: one can still make decisions
(15:30:57) Rosalyn_J: without a clear mind it can be hard to sus out your own motive
(15:31:45) Twigga: Ha ha ha... yeah! I'll take that!
(15:32:51) Twigga: I'll just assume I'm lovely all the time, but I know no-one is!
(15:33:20) Rosalyn_J: sorry slight emergency
(15:33:27) Twigga: *nods*
(15:33:29) Twigga: later Ros!
(15:34:15) Twigga: What's your take on dying Thomas, Brian, if you've a moment... I'd be interested to hear.
(15:34:42) Brick: dead is dead
(15:35:05) Twigga: Life in the force?
(15:37:25) Brick: I interpret that more as, the atoms of our body become other stuff in the interconnectedness of things
(15:37:47) Twigga: Is the Force things?
(15:39:26) Brick: for me, ‘The Force’ is the name given to the energy/power/*vague metaphysical descriptor* that Jedi believe interconnects everything in the universe.
(15:39:37) Twigga: And you?
(15:39:54) Brick: and me what?
(15:40:27) Twigga: Do you believe 'The Force' interconnects everything in the universe.
(15:41:52) Twigga: Why would anyone believe in anything so cuckoo?
(15:42:01) Brick: We are all part of everyone and everything whether we call ourselves Jedi or not. Every person that I have ever come into contact with, regardless of the length of the stay, had something to say or contribute or do that has had an impact in my experience of life, my path. That is interconnectedness. That is The Force.
(15:42:17) thomaswfaulkner: I've come to interpret it both as the glue and the manifested product of all the interplayings of being and non-being.
(15:42:37) thomaswfaulkner: Much better put, Brick!
(15:43:13) Twigga: Co-dependence?
(15:43:17) Brick: Is that cuckoo? I think of it from a scientific perspective. Like the forces that act upon sub-atomic particles. there wasn't that force there, then we'd fall through the floor
(15:43:32) thomaswfaulkner: And emptiness and impermanence
(15:43:56) Twigga: You got time for more on emptiness and impermanence today thomas?
(15:44:20) thomaswfaulkner: Yet another day, I must leave you in the dark. Muahahaha
(15:44:30) Twigga: *dang*
(15:44:32) Twigga:
(15:44:36) Brick: lmao
(15:44:53) Twigga: I got one more day, then I'll be off I'll miss this time!
(15:45:21) thomaswfaulkner: Case notes make the tippy tap typing sooo hard. I should be okay for tomorrow though.
(15:45:35) Twigga: awesome!
(15:45:44) Twigga: Shall we get creedy?
(15:46:11) Brick: can do
(15:46:19) Twigga: Nice
(15:46:43) Brick: Who is leading?
(15:46:51) thomaswfaulkner: you!
(15:46:58) Twigga: Yay!
(15:47:11) Brick: I am a Jedi, an instrument of peace;
(15:47:25) Twigga: I am a Jedi, an instrument of Peace;
(15:47:28) thomaswfaulkner: I am a Jedi, an instrument of peace;
(15:47:36) Brick: Where there is hatred I shall bring love;
(15:47:47) Twigga: Where there is hatred, I shall bring Love;
(15:47:52) thomaswfaulkner: Where there is hatred, I shall bring love;
(15:47:55) Brick: Where there is injury, pardon;
(15:47:57) Rosalyn_J: where there is hatred, I shall bring love
(15:48:05) thomaswfaulkner: Where three is injury, pardon;
(15:48:06) Twigga: Where there is injury, pardon;
(15:48:09) Rosalyn_J: where there is injury, pardon
(15:48:17) Brick: Where there is doubt, faith;
(15:48:28) Rosalyn_J: where there is doubt, faith
(15:48:28) Twigga: Where there is doubt, faith;
(15:48:31) thomaswfaulkner: Where there is doubt, faith;
(15:48:41) Brick: Where there is despair, hope;
(15:48:52) Twigga: Where there is despair, hope;
(15:49:01) Rosalyn_J: where there is despair, hope
(15:49:02) thomaswfaulkner: Where there is despair, hope;
(15:49:08) Brick: Where there is darkness, light;
(15:49:19) thomaswfaulkner: Where there is darkness, light;
(15:49:19) Twigga: Where there is darkness, light;
(15:49:21) Rosalyn_J: where there is darkness, light
(15:49:31) Brick: And where there is sadness, joy.
(15:49:41) Twigga: And where there is sadness, joy.
(15:49:46) thomaswfaulkner: And where there is sadness, joy.
(15:49:47) Rosalyn_J: and where there is sadness, jpy
(15:49:57) Brick: I am a Jedi.
(15:50:03) thomaswfaulkner: I am a Jedi.
(15:50:04) Twigga: I am a Jedi.
(15:50:08) Rosalyn_J: I am a Jedi
(15:50:14) Brick: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console;
(15:50:32) Twigga: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console;
(15:50:35) thomaswfaulkner: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console;
(15:50:37) Rosalyn_J: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console
(15:50:49) Brick: To be understood as to understand;
(15:50:59) Twigga: to be understood as to understand;
(15:51:05) Rosalyn_J: to be understood as to understand
(15:51:08) thomaswfaulkner: To be understood, as to understand
(15:51:14) Brick: To be loved as to love;
(15:51:23) Rosalyn_J: to love as to love
(15:51:23) Twigga: To be loved as to Love;
(15:51:24) thomaswfaulkner: To be loved, as to love;
(15:51:34) Brick: For it is in giving that we receive;
(15:51:45) thomaswfaulkner: For it is in giving that we receive;
(15:51:49) Rosalyn_J: for it is in giving that we receive
(15:51:59) Twigga: For it is in giving that we recieve;
(15:52:03) Brick: It is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
(15:52:18) Twigga: It is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
(15:52:22) Rosalyn_J: it is in pardoning that we are pardoned
(15:52:27) thomaswfaulkner: It is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
(15:52:32) Brick: And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
(15:52:48) Twigga: And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
(15:52:49) thomaswfaulkner: And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
(15:53:02) Rosalyn_J: and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life
(15:53:06) Brick: The Force is with me always, for I am a Jedi.
(15:53:20) Twigga: The force is with me always, for I am a Jedi.
(15:53:26) thomaswfaulkner: The Force is with me always, for I am a Jedi.
(15:53:28) Rosalyn_J: the Force is with me always for I am a Jedi
(15:54:14) Twigga: Thank you Brick, and thanks for hosting Ros!
(15:54:57) thomaswfaulkner: Well done, Brick!
(15:55:28) Twigga: Hope you all have lovely days ahead.

(15:13:16) Twigga: Hello Ros!
(15:13:25) Rosalyn_J: Hi
(15:13:26) thomaswfaulkner: Good morning, Ros!
(15:13:37) Rosalyn_J: Hello
(15:14:01) Twigga: I grabbed the teaching already
(15:14:08) Twigga: It's a good one
(15:14:14) Twigga: 16. Jedi make a commitment to their cause and to humanity. Our ideals, philosophies, and practices define the belief of Jediism and we take action on this path for self-improvement and to help others. We are both the witnesses and protectors of the Jedi way by the practice of our convictions.
(15:14:17) Rosalyn_J: Thank you
(15:14:41) Rosalyn_J: Hmm
(15:15:01) Rosalyn_J: Thoughts?
(15:15:04) Twigga: :favorite::favorite::favorite::favorite::favorite: This is why Jediism's all ok.
(15:15:40) Twigga: we take action. HURRAY!
(15:16:50) thomaswfaulkner: We breathe life to the doctrine through our actions.
(15:17:25) Rosalyn_J: Commitment to our cause can also give us the delusion of a one man army
(15:17:51) Rosalyn_J: Sticking it to the man, down with authority and such
(15:17:58) Twigga: AND - it's the last of all the teachings. Which I like... all that hot-housing and thinking before you're let loose... justice, peace, meditation, well-being, patience, skills and knowledge, integrity, clarity, duty... Anazing.
(15:19:18) Twigga: I think that's where it's NOT sticking it to the man. It's the last teaching because you have a lot of boring, boring man; and THEN you stick it to him where he, just like any man, has slipped up (so you recognise your own weaknesses, and you can stick it to him in a really kind and compassionate way).
(15:19:48) Twigga: 1-15 "the man", 16 "Stick it to him".
(15:20:03) Rosalyn_J: Oh
(15:20:39) Twigga: Just my own take on it though - came out of you saying that the things can really build on each other...
(15:21:49) Twigga: And as thomas said - it's where it comes alive.
(15:22:36) Rosalyn_J: (Nod)
(15:25:07) Twigga: It's why I like Jediism so much. This active aspect.
(15:25:20) Rosalyn_J: Right
(15:26:03) Rosalyn_J: And as you say you need to have a good grounding in those first 15
(15:26:04) Twigga: I don't always have the courage to act; but it adds a sort of... layer of "well, you thought about it a lot, so... go-on".
(15:26:24) Rosalyn_J: How so
(15:26:41) Twigga: I dunno - it's just a think that's there.
(15:26:44) Rosalyn_J: My courage bucket some rimes is empty
(15:26:51) Twigga: It doesn't make sense.
(15:27:10) Rosalyn_J: No it doesn't
(15:27:19) Twigga: You can have some of mine... my courage is sometimes a bit idle, twiddling it's fingers waiting for something to do....
(15:27:56) Twigga: It could learn a fair bit from the uses that you've been putting your own courage to
(15:29:31) Twigga: That grounding is really important. There's a phrase in peacework: "The opposite of good is 'well-meant'".
(15:30:25) Twigga: You can make a diabetic sad (or worse, sick, if they have poor self-control) by giving them chocolate.
(15:30:42) Rosalyn_J: Interesting phrase
(15:31:06) Twigga: It is... it makes you question your motivations.
(15:35:12) Twigga: And I think that is the bit that makes this an endless journey. Because I think there's always a closer to "good" thing than my current idea of "good" today... and it keeps me searching that out.
(15:37:08) Twigga: And that idea I find tricky, because I like finishing things
(15:39:03) Twigga: Do your ideas of emptiness fit into this thomas? I'm still super curious....
(15:41:01) thomaswfaulkner: I like how you put that Twigga. Once we know that what we do is "good" then we stop growing and moving on to challenge that way of being, in a positive manner.

It would be a stretch to include emptiness there, but I guess it could apply.
(15:41:25) Twigga:
(15:41:50) Twigga: I find "good" and "bad" really difficult concepts actually...
(15:42:02) Twigga: I don't really "get" them...
(15:42:11) Twigga: I'm not sure they exist!
(15:42:57) Rosalyn_J: Society
(15:43:48) thomaswfaulkner: I find they are good socratic thinking primers.
(15:43:57) thomaswfaulkner: Why is this good/bad?
(15:44:08) thomaswfaulkner: And down the rabbit hole you go.
(15:44:44) thomaswfaulkner: Challenging and reflecting our thoughts and beliefs
(15:44:47) Twigga: Can you explain thomas? What's a socratic primer. Why would the rabbit hole be a good place to go?
(15:45:32) Twigga: And I'm not sure what you mean by "society" either Ros. Is society the source of "good" and "bad" ideas?
(15:46:07) thomaswfaulkner: Sure...I use "good and bad" to help me reflect on my motives and beings
(15:46:15) thomaswfaulkner: Am I a good person?
(15:46:19) thomaswfaulkner: What does that mean?
(15:46:25) thomaswfaulkner: I did X
(15:46:35) thomaswfaulkner: I think X is good
(15:46:40) thomaswfaulkner: Why did I do X
(15:46:49) thomaswfaulkner: Did I hurt anyone in doing X
(15:47:39) thomaswfaulkner: I was really interested in my younger years to understand pure altruism and how moral concepts work
(15:47:51) thomaswfaulkner: Why do we help if there is no benefit to us?
(15:48:04) thomaswfaulkner: Are we good? Are we benefiting?
(15:48:13) thomaswfaulkner: There is a lot of questions to get lost in.
(15:48:26) Twigga: Yeah... VERY lost!
(15:48:52) Twigga: They're all "good" questions to ask
(15:49:22) thomaswfaulkner: I find myself just making an effort to be effortless in my actions. Going more with the flow and only using those socratic questioning to help me through really difficult situations.
(15:49:41) thomaswfaulkner: IS IT GOOD TO PUT JELLY ON MY TOAST?!
(15:49:48) Twigga:
(15:49:51) thomaswfaulkner: (whoosh down the rabbit hole) :D:D
(15:49:53) Twigga: You'd never do anything!
(15:50:32) thomaswfaulkner: Blast, you've found my secret.
(15:51:15) Twigga: So a lot of our ability to act as Jedi is a confidence that our "well meaning-ness" is actually close (enough) to "good" to let us act; but being aware there will be times we'll get it utterly wrong; and it's important to be listening out, all the time.
(15:52:22) thomaswfaulkner: This is exactly how I feel about it. I couldn't have said it better.
(15:53:07) Twigga:
(15:53:17) thomaswfaulkner: There is a tricky part at the last part of the teaching that I don't think we've touched on yet. How do you define "protectors" of the Jedi way?
(15:54:49) Rosalyn_J: Individually
(15:55:10) Twigga: I think we have... "by the practice of our convictions." - i.e. the practices both of real-world actions, and reflection on how things went, held up against those ideals, philosophies, and practices which define our belief of Jediism...
(15:56:18) Twigga: ... but that's really hard when your ideals, philosophies, and practices are of a neophyte!
(15:56:52) Twigga: Does that match up with your understanding of "individually" Ros?
(16:00:53) Twigga: I'm looking forward to getting my "ideals, philosophies, and practices" a little bit off the ground.
(16:01:22) thomaswfaulkner: I've come to interpret it through how I allow Jediism to manifest through my actions and my compassion for others.
(16:01:32) thomaswfaulkner: Have you tried jumping?
(16:01:59) Twigga: yes, and flapping my arms about; but it just makes my head hurt...
(16:03:07) Twigga: so your ideals, philosophies, and practices are what you do; not what you think about what you do? It's hard to be an external observer of yourself... It's hard to know what you show.
(16:03:08) thomaswfaulkner: If it counts your ideas became ethereal yesterday and manifested in something that I wrote about in my AP journal.
(16:03:43) Rosalyn_J: Well 16 is an individual teaching. Actually all are
(16:03:48) Twigga: .... gmbl gmbl... veil... AP journals!
(16:05:10) Rosalyn_J: If we are content to say find your own way to Jedi in the first 15, we have to be willing with the 16th
(16:06:16) Twigga: Are we? Or is that why you got the whole apprentice system?
(16:06:44) Twigga: Again, I say "It's hard to know what you show."
(16:07:48) Rosalyn_J: The apprentice system is not a molding but a growing
(16:08:59) Twigga: Kids grow 'cause they have things to push against.
(16:09:58) Rosalyn_J: Hmm
(16:10:59) Twigga: People can be very encouraging and nice about, say a dutch exam (all finished now, yay!) which was no way near as hard for me as sitting still on a plane for 10 hours without screaming will be. I'm not going to learn to face my fears if I just keep doing those things which society encourages me into as well.
(16:11:40) Twigga: to be frank, I'd probably do very little! But that's 'cause my base-state is a pretty lazy one.
(16:13:34) Rosalyn_J: So the apprenticrship is a questioning
(16:14:05) Twigga: ... I dunno - I'll let you know if and when I get there
(16:14:30) Rosalyn_J: Its been my experience that the thing we hate to do, fear to do, will often be our lesson
(16:14:35) Rosalyn_J: Because we
(16:14:56) Rosalyn_J: Let slip " I hate flying"
(16:15:18) Twigga: I do... REALLY do.
(16:16:41) Twigga: Well, I'm ok with gliders.
(16:16:50) Twigga: Everything else sucks.
(16:17:22) Rosalyn_J: You'd like some tools for that wouldn't you?
(16:17:45) Rosalyn_J: So we give you a lesson to come up with some tools
(16:17:54) Twigga: hmm... I'd like a week to be able to take a boat instead!
(16:18:17) Rosalyn_J: Well
(16:18:21) Twigga:
(16:18:35) thomaswfaulkner: I have a client in the lobby. I'll catch up with you all on the other side.
(16:18:57) Twigga: see you Thomas Have a beautiful day!
(16:20:01) Twigga: It sounds like it'll be a-okay Ros.
(16:21:13) Rosalyn_J: OK
(16:21:28) Rosalyn_J: Ready for creed?
(16:21:34) Twigga: Yeah!
(16:21:38) Twigga:
(16:21:47) Rosalyn_J: _
(16:22:01) Rosalyn_J: I am a Jedi an instrument of peace
(16:22:15) Twigga: I am a Jedi an instrument of Peace
(16:22:26) Rosalyn_J: Where there is hatred I shall bring love
(16:22:37) Twigga: Where there is hatred, I shall bring Love;
(16:22:50) Rosalyn_J: Where there is injury pardon
(16:22:55) Temple remote: thomaswfaulkner has been logged out (Timeout).
(16:23:04) Twigga: Where there is injury, pardon;
(16:23:16) Rosalyn_J: Where there is doubt faith
(16:23:21) Twigga: Where there is doubt, faith;
(16:23:34) Rosalyn_J: Where there is despair hope
(16:23:45) Twigga: Where there is despair, hope;
(16:23:57) Rosalyn_J: Where there is Darkness light
(16:24:01) Twigga: Where there is darkness, light;
(16:24:13) Rosalyn_J: And where there is sadness Joy
(16:24:19) Twigga: And where there is sadness, Joy;
(16:24:32) Rosalyn_J: I am a Jedi
(16:24:39) Twigga: I am a Jedi
(16:24:53) Rosalyn_J: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console
(16:25:10) Twigga: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console;
(16:25:23) Rosalyn_J: To be understood as to understand
(16:25:28) Twigga: To be understood as to understand;
(16:25:41) Rosalyn_J: To be loved as to love
(16:25:45) Twigga: to be loved as to Love;
(16:25:55) Rosalyn_J: For it is in giving that we receive
(16:26:08) Twigga: For it is in giving that we recieve
(16:26:20) Rosalyn_J: It is in pardoning that we are pardoned
(16:26:24) Twigga: It is in pardoning that we are pardoned
(16:26:39) Rosalyn_J: And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life
(16:26:48) Twigga: And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
(16:27:02) Rosalyn_J: The Force is with me always for I am a Jedi
(16:27:08) Twigga: The Force is with me always, for I am a Jedi.
(16:27:21) Twigga: Thank you so much Ros!
(16:27:28) Twigga: would you like me to post/
(16:27:33) Rosalyn_J:
(16:27:42) Rosalyn_J: Please

(06:00:14) Twigga: Hello!
(06:02:29) Temple remote: Rosalyn_J logs into the Chat.
(06:02:36) Rosalyn_J: Hiya
(06:04:20) Rosalyn_J: How goes it?
(06:08:51) Twigga: Good!
(06:09:03) Twigga: Just on the train to Berlin...
(06:09:13) Twigga: How are things with you Ros?
(06:10:43) Twigga: (Sorry about the internet lag there!)
(06:12:34) Rosalyn_J: Pretty good.
(06:12:54) Rosalyn_J: Yesterday had an issue w/ skirt
(06:13:10) Rosalyn_J: Sorted it and then it was 13:30
(06:15:30) Rosalyn_J: So what's on the agenda today?
(06:16:17) Twigga: I dunno!
(06:16:27) Twigga: For me, just travel.
(06:16:41) Twigga: But for the meditation?
(06:17:11) Twigga: I'm sorry your skirt misbehaved on you
(06:19:08) Rosalyn_J: Nah you
(06:19:14) Rosalyn_J: I'm on bus
(06:19:17) Twigga: I've been plugging through the maxims in IP - it's been better than I thought.
(06:19:18) Rosalyn_J: Lol
(06:19:25) Rosalyn_J: Oh good
(06:19:45) Twigga: You never know what you might find!
(06:19:45) Rosalyn_J: When I was younger I did them in one shot
(06:19:54) Twigga: Yeah?
(06:21:36) Rosalyn_J: Yeah standards changed in 6 years
(06:21:58) Temple remote: Vera_Gman logs into the Chat.
(06:22:08) Twigga:
(06:22:40) Twigga: It depends what IP is for really.
(06:22:57) Twigga: Process or prize? Or, something else...
(06:23:17) Rosalyn_J: Right
(06:23:35) Rosalyn_J: Vera did you get your app sorted?
(06:23:52) Twigga: So, if it's just a comprehension exercise, one shot is enough...
(06:25:00) Rosalyn_J: Right
(06:26:13) Twigga: I arrived already with a bag full of questions to throw at those ideas. I still want it all to fail under the pressure I put on it.
(06:26:19) Rosalyn_J: That's why this time is important
(06:26:37) Rosalyn_J: Is it failing?
(06:26:39) Twigga: Then I can leave, going "Yep! Broken!"
(06:26:55) Twigga: Not yet, unfortunately.
(06:27:09) Twigga: I might have to be proven wrong...
(06:27:22) Twigga: But I'm sure I will live.
(06:27:27) Vera_Gman: I contacted the Madhatter I got no responde. But I can try again.
(06:27:52) Rosalyn_J: He's usually busy
(06:28:04) Rosalyn_J: Give him till weekend
(06:28:19) Rosalyn_J: In the meantime you can start up
(06:28:30) Twigga: Good work Vera. He sometimes takes a while to get back. A week on average for me, with a reminder sometimes needed...
(06:28:47) Rosalyn_J: We only need an app if you want to be an apprentice
(06:28:51) Twigga: Yeah, weekends are good.
(06:29:06) Rosalyn_J: Which can take e
(06:29:17) Rosalyn_J: 3-6 months lol
(06:29:48) Twigga: 3-6 months on membership application now?!
(06:30:02) Rosalyn_J: No
(06:30:06) Twigga: Am I misunderstanding?
(06:30:14) Rosalyn_J: 3-6 to apprentice
(06:30:34) Twigga: Ah! For the IP to get written.
(06:30:38) Rosalyn_J: Depending on how quick you do IP
(06:31:01) Rosalyn_J: Those are quick estimates
(06:31:09) Twigga:
(06:31:40) Twigga: We have a lot of returning Novices this summer!
(06:32:07) Rosalyn_J: We do
(06:32:21) Rosalyn_J: Its schools out
(06:32:23) Twigga: It's really exciting.
(06:32:50) Twigga: And I look forward to IP Study Hall to see everyone there.
(06:32:53) Vera_Gman: I undrstand we all have personal lives
(06:34:58) Rosalyn_J: You can start the IP though Vera
(06:35:39) Twigga: IP's been brilliant!
(06:35:47) Vera_Gman: uf I am slow lurner i am right now chewing the power of the myth book and i am not iven duone with the firs chapter hehe
(06:35:51) Twigga: I don't want to finish it
(06:36:34) Rosalyn_J: But, but apprenticeship
(06:36:38) Twigga: Take the time. I think it's worth it.
(06:37:29) Rosalyn_J: Yes Vera. I regret rushing all those years ago
(06:37:38) Twigga: You're not alone going through it with study hall and meditation sessions!
(06:37:55) Vera_Gman: I really like it verry mutch
(06:38:20) Twigga: But I think when you did it Ros, you didn't get into community until later.
(06:38:25) Rosalyn_J: I'm glad
(06:38:37) Rosalyn_J: True
(06:39:07) Rosalyn_J: I was pretty excited too
(06:39:14) Twigga:
(06:39:32) Twigga: I'm just daunted!
(06:39:58) Twigga: I'm in control with IP.
(06:40:41) Twigga: Apprenticeship seems to involve a deep old bucket of trust.
(06:41:30) Twigga: Plus, probably some desire to be a knight
(06:41:49) Rosalyn_J: Find someone you trust already
(06:41:56) Twigga: ... Which mostly sounds like hard work to me!
(06:42:07) Rosalyn_J: Don't worry about that so much
(06:42:23) Twigga: Ha ha ha!
(06:42:44) Rosalyn_J: If all you want to do is learn, you don't have to be a knight
(06:42:45) Twigga: I don't need to for a while. I can see IP still taking me until Christmas.
(06:43:29) Twigga: Personal Tools
(06:43:36) Rosalyn_J: Alright
(06:43:36) Twigga: Blerch!
(06:44:38) Twigga: Sorry. I will face it sometime. But I know I'm dancing round it.
(06:44:43) Rosalyn_J: Sure its not bad
(06:45:07) Rosalyn_J: Tools?
(06:45:12) Twigga: Yeah
(06:45:23) Twigga: Dunno his to tackle it yet.
(06:45:28) Twigga: *how
(06:45:38) Twigga: But, maxims at the moment...
(06:45:50) Twigga: They're what I'm on NOW.
(06:46:24) Rosalyn_J: Yep
(06:46:49) Twigga: How's your post-Knighthood study going?Rosalyn_J
(06:47:21) Twigga: I assume you just keep on plugging at it - though it must be tough with being Pastor too!
(06:47:35) Twigga: ... Dunno where you find the time personally!
(06:48:38) Vera_Gman: did you have a knighting seeremony?
(06:49:24) Twigga: There is one tomorrow, for Thomas if you can make it Vera!
(06:49:38) Twigga: It's fun to be there...
(06:50:43) Vera_Gman: yes i will come where it is? And when?
(06:51:11) Twigga: It's hosted here, in AJAX chat
(06:51:24) Vera_Gman: nice
(06:52:33) Twigga: I think it's 7pm here... Check the forum Announcements > Knighthood
(06:52:50) Twigga: On Saturday
(06:53:25) Rosalyn_J: Oh post knighthood? Ill be working on re-doing the seminary lessons
(06:54:07) Twigga: Oooh! Before Rax introduces the update?
(06:54:24) Twigga: I can't wait to see how it evolves...
(06:54:54) Twigga: (Evolves! Bio nerd joke - I think he'd be proud)
(06:55:39) Rosalyn_J: After
(06:56:08) Rosalyn_J: As for how I do it, I make it a priority
(06:56:29) Twigga: Sweet. Looking forward to Seminary Study Hall in Discord
(06:56:55) Twigga: *sigh* getting priorities right is hard.
(06:57:56) Twigga: More things to learn how to do!
(06:58:03) Twigga:
(06:58:10) Rosalyn_J: Well it helps that I'm only responsible for me
(06:58:21) Rosalyn_J: No spouse/children
(06:58:54) Twigga: And a temple full of teenagers
(06:59:22) Twigga: Well, I'm older than a teenager, I just still act like one...
(06:59:56) Twigga: ... A nice one. But still a bit moody
(07:00:03) Rosalyn_J:
(07:00:54) Twigga: I really appreciate all the support.
(07:02:12) Twigga: Shall we creed it up? I know you have a day to get on with?
(07:02:23) Rosalyn_J: This is in some ways more difficult
(07:02:30) Rosalyn_J: Ah yes
(07:02:31) Twigga: Or just count this as an informal chat?
(07:02:46) Twigga: ... Sorry, what is more difficult?
(07:02:51) Rosalyn_J: Vera, you wanna do the creed after
(07:03:30) Vera_Gman: witch creed?
(07:03:44) Rosalyn_J: Ours?
(07:04:04) Twigga: *sits down to listen to Ros explain what the creed is*
(07:04:10) Rosalyn_J: Starts with I am a Jedi an instrument of peace
(07:04:42) Rosalyn_J: Just type after I type, ok?
(07:04:50) Vera_Gman: ok
(07:05:11) Rosalyn_J: --
(07:05:37) Rosalyn_J: I am a Jedi, an instrument of peace
(07:05:51) Twigga: I am a Jedi, an instrument of peace
(07:06:05) Vera_Gman: I am a Jedi an intrument of peace
(07:06:13) Rosalyn_J: Where there is hatred, I shall bring love
(07:06:37) Twigga: Where there is hatred, I shall bring Love
(07:06:44) Vera_Gman: Where there is hatred, I shall bring love
(07:06:47) Rosalyn_J: Where there is injury, pardon
(07:07:01) Twigga: Where there is injury, pardon
(07:07:05) Vera_Gman: Where there is injury, pardon
(07:07:41) Rosalyn_J: Where there is doubt, faith
(07:07:53) Twigga: Where there is doubt, faith
(07:08:15) Rosalyn_J: Where there is despair, hope
(07:08:18) Vera_Gman: Where there is doubt, faith
(07:08:35) Vera_Gman: Where there is despair, hope
(07:08:35) Twigga: Where there is despair, hope
(07:09:06) Rosalyn_J: Where there is darkness, light
(07:09:16) Twigga: Where there is darkness, light
(07:09:27) Vera_Gman: Where there is darkness, light
(07:09:45) Rosalyn_J: And where there is sadness joy
(07:10:03) Twigga: And where there is sadness, joy.
(07:10:05) Vera_Gman: And where there is sadness joy
(07:11:33) Rosalyn_J: I am a Jedi
(07:11:41) Twigga: I am a Jedi
(07:11:53) Vera_Gman: I am a Jedi
(07:12:36) Rosalyn_J: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console
(07:13:07) Twigga: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console
(07:13:10) Vera_Gman: I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console
(07:13:34) Rosalyn_J: To be understood as to understand
(07:13:49) Twigga: To be understood as to understand
(07:14:03) Vera_Gman: To be understood as to understand
(07:14:55) Rosalyn_J: To be loved as to love
(07:15:06) Twigga: To be loved as to love
(07:15:10) Vera_Gman: To be loved as to love
(07:16:06) Rosalyn_J: For it is in giving that we receive
(07:16:21) Twigga: For it is in giving that we receive
(07:16:25) Vera_Gman: For it is in giving that we receive
(07:18:17) Rosalyn_J: It is in pardoning that we are pardoned
(07:18:38) Twigga: It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
(07:18:42) Vera_Gman: It is in pardoning that we are pardoned
(07:19:16) Rosalyn_J: And it is in death that we are born to eternal life
(07:19:26) Twigga: And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
(07:19:57) Vera_Gman: And it is in death that we are born to eternal life
(07:20:15) Rosalyn_J: The Force is with me always for I am a Jedi
(07:20:27) Vera_Gman: The Force is with me always for I am a Jedi
(07:20:36) Twigga: The force is with me always, for I am a Jedi.
(07:20:49) Twigga: ... Thank you Ros.
(07:21:13) Rosalyn_J: Thank you, May the Force be with you both
(07:21:23) Twigga: Felt like a long time. And I know I would have missed it tomorrow at Thomas' knighthood.
(07:21:53) Twigga: Will you send him best wishes and congratulations from me at the time?
(07:22:06) Twigga: I mailed him, but... *shrugs*
(07:22:21) Vera_Gman: that was incredible thank you
(07:22:48) Rosalyn_J: I will
(07:23:03) Twigga: Thanks.
(07:23:18) Rosalyn_J: The Creed is an integral part of our Doctrine here
(07:23:22) Twigga: I remember doing that my first time too Vera.
(07:23:35) Twigga: I watched a few times first though
(07:23:47) Rosalyn_J: I like to refer to it as our "Job Description"
(07:24:00) Twigga: I'm pleased you felt you could join in !
(07:24:10) Twigga: I like that Ros.
(07:24:20) Rosalyn_J: Ah the first time *stares wistfully
(07:24:33) Vera_Gman:
(07:24:37) Twigga: ... Can we post this meditation, since it was a key one for Vera possibly?
(07:24:53) Rosalyn_J: Sure
(07:25:04) Rosalyn_J: Are you at a comp?
(07:25:18) Twigga: Alas no
(07:25:29) Rosalyn_J: Dang
(07:25:37) Twigga: I only have about 7 lines back history...
(07:26:07) Twigga: So, may e it's not possible. But I could write a summary on the forum…

August 6, 2018
[9:04 AM] Twigga: Here
[9:07 AM] rosalyn j: Hmm
[9:08 AM] rosalyn j: Voice?
[9:08 AM] Twigga: Ah, no capacity for me...
[9:09 AM] rosalyn j: Aww
[9:09 AM] Twigga: Sorry. Train!
[9:09 AM] rosalyn j: Gotcha
[9:09 AM] !!benquack!!: I might be able to do voice... but I'm a new human. so I'm not sure if that's awkward or not! :smiley: I might just listen in this time around, if that's cool.
[9:10 AM] Twigga: Not at all awkward.
[9:10 AM] rosalyn j: Its a kinda new thingy
[9:10 AM] !!benquack!!: Oh. Cool cool!
[9:11 AM] Twigga: We've never tried Discord before. I let Thomas know - he was in AJAX
[9:11 AM] rosalyn j: yay spur of the moment!!!
[9:11 AM] rosalyn j: so Twigga, do you know where we are?
[9:12 AM] Twigga: I know I'm currently writing in the maxims...
[9:12 AM] Twigga: I think here, together we'd done some...
[9:13 AM] rosalyn j: by the way @!!benquack!! what I call meditations is actually an opportunity to look at the Doctrine in depth
[9:13 AM] Twigga: But I'm now just done with discretion...
[9:13 AM] rosalyn j: ok we can go there
[9:13 AM] !!benquack!!: Cool!
[9:14 AM] rosalyn j: let me pull up the doctrine and get the explination
❤
1
[9:15 AM] rosalyn j: Discretion: To become invisible.

A Jedi knows there is a time and place for all things. They do not actively interfere in worldly affairs and refrain from overtly supporting or opposing other individuals or organizations
[9:16 AM] !!benquack!!: Ooooh interesting
[9:17 AM] Twigga: In my blurb, I got a bit political. I didn't like the idea of "invisible", because, well, I suppose I connected it with " irresponsible.
[9:18 AM] !!benquack!!: Yeah, in my personal philosophy, I kinda disagree with that. But I might be misunderstanding idk,
[9:18 AM] rosalyn j: well consider Tao te Ching 17
[9:18 AM] Twigga: Which is?
[9:19 AM] Twigga: (That's totally NOT in IP!)
[9:19 AM] rosalyn j: well, which is?
[9:19 AM] Twigga: I only heardnof the tao for the first time here, I don't have a copy...
[9:19 AM] !!benquack!!: I'm not entirely sure what it is either, actually
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1
[9:20 AM] !!benquack!!: Imma google
[9:20 AM] Twigga: Sir Thomas! big hug
[9:20 AM] thomaswfaulkner: I'm a really big fan of that verse.
[9:20 AM] Twigga: Congratulations!
[9:20 AM] thomaswfaulkner: Hello hello hello! And a big thank you, too
[9:21 AM] !!benquack!!: I might me wrong, but is it this one?...
[9:21 AM] Twigga: settles down to listen
[9:21 AM] !!benquack!!: The supreme rulers are hardly known by their subjects.

The lesser are loved and praised.

The even lesser are feared.

The least are despised.


Those who show no trust will not be trusted.

Those who are quiet value the words.

When their task is completed, people will say:

We did it ourselves.
[9:21 AM] !!benquack!!: Also hello other human!
[9:21 AM] Twigga: That's... A bit rough.
[9:22 AM] thomaswfaulkner: Ah, yes! That's it.

Steve Mitchell says it a bit better
[9:22 AM] thomaswfaulkner: When the Master governs, the people
are hardly aware that he exists.
Next best is a leader who is loved.
Next, one who is feared.
The worst is one who is despised.

If you don't trust the people,
you make them untrustworthy.

The Master doesn't talk, he acts.
When his work is done,
the people say, "Amazing:
we did it, all by ourselves!"
[9:22 AM] rosalyn j: yes
[9:22 AM] !!benquack!!: oooh that makes more sense to me
[9:22 AM] rosalyn j: a lot of people want to be visible
[9:23 AM] rosalyn j: visibly leading, visibly, guidng, visibly jedi-ing
[9:23 AM] Twigga: I agree, this is a better translation.
[9:23 AM] rosalyn j: A Jedi's work is subtle work
[9:23 AM] Twigga: Oh! THAT kind of visible!
[9:23 AM] !!benquack!!: Okay
[9:23 AM] !!benquack!!: Okay, I'm vibing with that a lot more
[9:24 AM] Twigga: Same here!
[9:24 AM] rosalyn j: if we go to a protest, is it to be SEEN as a protestor?
[9:24 AM] !!benquack!!: Aaaah, okay
[9:24 AM] Twigga: Mostly but that's a good thing.
[9:24 AM] Twigga: In my book.
[9:25 AM] rosalyn j: if we post on facebook, is it to be seen as vehemently against/for something?
[9:25 AM] rosalyn j: and
[9:25 AM] rosalyn j: and
[9:25 AM] Twigga: Some things require a push back, because they are wrong
[9:25 AM] rosalyn j: is that all we are doing
[9:26 AM] !!benquack!!: I think Rosalyn is saying is it so that you can say "hah, i protested, im a protestor, im cool," or would it be to support a cause without bringing ego along
[9:27 AM] rosalyn j: I imagine that for every speech Martin Luther King gave to a crowd of thousands he wrote a letter to even more
[9:27 AM] Twigga: Thomas let me know recently about something happening in the news via facebook that slipped my radar. If he weren't helping these issues be seen, I can't do anything to put them right. His visibility to me is vital.
[9:27 AM] !!benquack!!: Yeah.
[9:28 AM] !!benquack!!: Idk. poke me if im wrong, but I think it's about the motivation behind that visibility?
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2
[9:28 AM] rosalyn j: right
[9:28 AM] rosalyn j: at least in my opinion
[9:28 AM] !!benquack!!: like, are you being visible for the sake of being visible? or trying to help without making a name for yourself?
[9:29 AM] Twigga: Imagine if MLK ONLY wrote letters! We would have missed LOADS!
[9:29 AM] rosalyn j: true
[9:29 AM] rosalyn j: but the visibility I think came from tones and tones of invisible deeds
[9:29 AM] Twigga: I really didn't even think of the idea of doing visibility for self promotion reasons.
[9:30 AM] !!benquack!!: Yeah
[9:30 AM] rosalyn j: you dont get a crowd of millions listening to you until youve listened to one
[9:30 AM] rosalyn j: and then another
[9:30 AM] rosalyn j: and another
[9:30 AM] rosalyn j: that creates a fire
[9:30 AM] rosalyn j: they werent there for Martin, but for his dream
[9:31 AM] rosalyn j: because his dream was theirs
[9:31 AM] Twigga: Hmm... Maybe.
[9:31 AM] !!benquack!!: Idk though. I reckon sometimes when I'm trying to help a cause, a little egotistical part of me wants to be seen as the good guy. But instead, more meaninful change can come from putting ego aside and lifting others to the forefront?
[9:33 AM] !!benquack!!: Or even... idk... the whole "doing" as much as "saying" bit. Cuz, I can yell about injustices in palestine (for example) as much as I want, and be as loud as I want, but I could actually be helping out in a soup kitchen? Without egotistical reward?
[9:33 AM] !!benquack!!: (If ive totally derailed the topic, please poke me)
[9:34 AM] Twigga: ... I can tell you, shouting about Palestine isn't rewarding :joy:
[9:35 AM] !!benquack!!: ... I mean, you're not wrong. But at the same time, I guess there's a part of me that wants to be seen by others to be doing good and to be saying the right, morally correct things? and I think that part should be challenged/examined.
[9:35 AM] Twigga: I think you're on the right track, but at risk of tying yourself in knots of guilt. This is why I settled on being "good enough".
[9:35 AM] !!benquack!!: Yea
[9:35 AM] !!benquack!!: Yeah, that;s a really good pint
[9:36 AM] !!benquack!!: *point
[9:37 AM] Twigga: And Jediism has this wonderfully vague moral relativity about it, which means chasing that "being seen to do the morally right thing" game goes poof
[9:37 AM] !!benquack!!: Huh... Interesting
[9:37 AM] rosalyn j: its so true
[9:37 AM] Twigga: I've not fully got my head about that bit yet though
[9:37 AM] rosalyn j: in those moments I remember 1 Cor 13
[9:37 AM] !!benquack!!: It is that whole, 'what is more important, intention or action' thing a little, I guess?
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1
[9:37 AM] rosalyn j: or even just the Creed
[9:38 AM] rosalyn j: we are meant to be instruments of peace
[9:38 AM] !!benquack!!: okay
[9:38 AM] Twigga: I copy you Ros re: creed. But Ben, I think not.
[9:38 AM] rosalyn j: but how we go about it, that'll be individual
[9:39 AM] rosalyn j: we each have our own compass
[9:39 AM] !!benquack!!: (this is a really cool convo, wow.)
[9:39 AM] rosalyn j: as we fine tune it, it can direct us better
[9:39 AM] rosalyn j: where
[9:39 AM] rosalyn j: is love needed
[9:40 AM] Twigga: Ros is a cool human. She does this every weekday y'know
[9:40 AM] rosalyn j: where is pardon
[9:40 AM] !!benquack!!: Dang... I gotta be here. THis is where it's at
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1
[9:40 AM] rosalyn j: where is faith, hope, joy, light
[9:40 AM] rosalyn j: and it'll change as we do
9:40 AM] rosalyn j: thats why we can't afford to be rigid
[9:41 AM] Twigga: Ugh. Change. (Rabbit! Do not chase!)
[9:41 AM] rosalyn j: because the Force NEEDS to flow through us
[9:41 AM] rosalyn j: we ought not put barriers in the way
[9:41 AM] !!benquack!!: What kind of barriers? in relation to this particular theme?
[9:42 AM] rosalyn j: when we are convinced something is right/wrong good/bad
[9:42 AM] rosalyn j: in some spaces that can be good
[9:42 AM] Nakis [Work]: (Also a form of attachment, that is, aye?)
?
1
[9:43 AM] rosalyn j: like for example, looking at the whole world and the sort of state its in
[9:43 AM] rosalyn j: BUT
[9:43 AM] rosalyn j: bring that down to the individual level
[9:44 AM] rosalyn j: and if you let that dichotomus thinking define the sort of views you will take into consideration in, say, your circle of influence, thats a bit of a spicy meatball
[9:44 AM] Twigga: :thinking:
[9:45 AM] !!benquack!!: (sorry, what do you mean by dichotomus thinking)
[9:45 AM] rosalyn j: its why some of us can no longer talk about politics at the dinner table
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1
[9:46 AM] rosalyn j: or why we can't have genuine conversations around topics that are potentially activating
?
1
[9:46 AM] Twigga: ... Why is it we can't have genuine conversations?
[9:46 AM] !!benquack!!: Okay. So, from what I'm understanding, there is something negative to be found in some of ......... wait what twigga said(edited)
[9:47 AM] rosalyn j: because some of us have already chosen sides in the "debate"
[9:47 AM] rosalyn j: and we have our "facts"
[9:47 AM] rosalyn j: and we are ready to win
[9:47 AM] thomaswfaulkner: Up is "better" than down rather than each are parts that define the other
?
1
[9:48 AM] !!benquack!!: yes. but. in some circumstances, around devisive political topics, I genuinely believe my "facts" are correct
[9:49 AM] rosalyn j: so does your friend there
[9:49 AM] !!benquack!!: but. Like. human rights? Doesn't having discussions help? Like, improve people's empathy or something?
[9:50 AM] Twigga: You need to be able to give a bit to get buy-in from the other side...
[9:50 AM] thomaswfaulkner: Discussion is so power
[9:50 AM] thomaswfaulkner: We are choose to listen to each sides
[9:50 AM] Twigga: ... Unless the other side is just... Sick...
[9:50 AM] Twigga: I dunno what to do then.
[9:50 AM] !!benquack!!: But some sides are just wrong though! Like,
[9:50 AM] thomaswfaulkner: Yes, there are those lines too.
[9:51 AM] !!benquack!!: ugh. Im confused
[9:51 AM] rosalyn j: I agree
[9:51 AM] rosalyn j: so
[9:51 AM] !!benquack!!: (in a good way, i think)
[9:51 AM] Twigga: Thomas was agreeing with you, I think Ben
[9:51 AM] rosalyn j: instead of coming with your arsenal ready to bring them to their knees
[9:51 AM] rosalyn j: think about the creed
[9:51 AM] !!benquack!!: okay
[9:52 AM] rosalyn j: is there a way that I can bring this forward using love, pardon, faith....
[9:52 AM] !!benquack!!: yeah
[9:53 AM] rosalyn j: because if we have someone rooted in their position, there is no way, despite your facts that they can be unrooted
[9:53 AM] rosalyn j: they have to pull themselves out
[9:53 AM] !!benquack!!: okay, so you're saying to examine how you have these conversations. you're not saying not to have these conversations with people
[9:53 AM] Twigga: Hitting a line can mean harm reduction, rather than simple discussion.
[9:53 AM] rosalyn j: hence the "we did it ourselves"
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[9:54 AM] rosalyn j: yes, harm reduction is sometimes all we can do
[9:54 AM] rosalyn j: just get out of the way
[9:54 AM] !!benquack!!: This is interesting
[9:54 AM] rosalyn j: yes, please have the conversations
[9:55 AM] rosalyn j: examine, where is your ego, what are your motives
[9:55 AM] !!benquack!!: i dunno. I do get angry about things sometimes. But I know that's pretty much the antithisis to the code, and to progress.
[9:55 AM] !!benquack!!: THank you
[9:55 AM] !!benquack!!: this is really useful and important stuff
[9:55 AM] rosalyn j: we can be angry, but we are Jedi
[9:55 AM] rosalyn j: our emotions cannot take the reigns here
[9:56 AM] !!benquack!!: okay
[9:56 AM] Twigga: Anger can show us where we're seeing an injustice - it's ok to be angry.
[9:56 AM] rosalyn j: yes
[9:56 AM] Twigga: Or, feelnit, anyway
[9:56 AM] !!benquack!!: okay
[9:56 AM] Twigga: Better to feel it than bury it.
[9:57 AM] !!benquack!!: definately
[9:57 AM] rosalyn j: for example, I value the Social Security program we have here in the states
[9:57 AM] rosalyn j: there are some who consider our most vulnerable unworthy
[9:57 AM] !!benquack!!: yup
[9:57 AM] rosalyn j: instead of trying to convince them otherwise
[9:57 AM] rosalyn j: I took a job to actively help people get it
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[9:58 AM] rosalyn j: and when it comes under attack, I write to my senators and other representatives
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[9:58 AM] !!benquack!!: Okay
[9:58 AM] !!benquack!!: Okay, that's making sense to me now
[9:58 AM] Twigga: (Train change!)
[9:59 AM] rosalyn j: im either thinking of alternatives or having them bring the discussion to the table in a way that helps our most vulnerable
[9:59 AM] !!benquack!!: So, that one saying "the strenght to change what I can, the (something) to accept what I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference?"
[10:00 AM] rosalyn j: there is that
[10:00 AM] rosalyn j: but I like to think about it this way
[10:00 AM] rosalyn j: if I can help in some active way, bring about the change I want to see
[10:00 AM] rosalyn j: I will do it
[10:00 AM] rosalyn j: I will speak to those willing to listen
[10:01 AM] !!benquack!!: ah
[10:01 AM] !!benquack!!: those willing to listen
[10:01 AM] !!benquack!!: okay(edited)
[10:01 AM] rosalyn j: and work for the changes I think are in the best interest of those who I serve
[10:01 AM] !!benquack!!: yeah
[10:01 AM] rosalyn j: but I have to constantly evaluate
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[10:02 AM] rosalyn j: and if I get off track I need to know it
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[10:03 AM] !!benquack!!: is one always separate from the group they are trying to serve? because I find it is more difficult to stay objective in political conversation when the impacts of people's opinions, on a larger scale, directly affect my (and my friends') quality of life
[10:04 AM] rosalyn j: No, one is not always seperate
[10:04 AM] rosalyn j: I was a part of the benefits program
[10:04 AM] !!benquack!!: yup
[10:04 AM] rosalyn j: I am a member of the LGBT community
[10:04 AM] !!benquack!!: yup (same)(edited)
[10:04 AM] rosalyn j: I am a Christian, but I am not evangelical
[10:04 AM] !!benquack!!: okay
[10:05 AM] rosalyn j: many of these things affect me on a personal level
[10:05 AM] Nakis [Work]: If I may interject: There is a difference between intimately knowing the struggles of a group and being biased.
[10:06 AM] Nakis [Work]: It's the level of awareness one has being in the community that can help highlight things that people outside the community don't appreciate or even see.
[10:07 AM] rosalyn j: If I actively participated in every struggle, read every news article, went to every protest, I'd be angry and sick all the time
[10:07 AM] !!benquack!!: THis is giving me a lot to think about
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[10:07 AM] rosalyn j: some people can do that and not be sick
[10:07 AM] !!benquack!!: and yeah, that one really makes sense
[10:08 AM] rosalyn j: I know that I can't
[10:08 AM] rosalyn j: and its a function of my privalege that I dont "have to"
[10:08 AM] rosalyn j: that I can make a choice
[10:09 AM] rosalyn j: some people may not be able too
[10:09 AM] rosalyn j: but I am convinced that I would be a poor servant if I were both angry and sick
[10:09 AM] !!benquack!!: Thank you rosalyn. this is really helping me think things through
[10:10 AM] rosalyn j: I do what I can in the spaces that I have in the ways that are most beneficial in my mind
[10:11 AM] !!benquack!!: okay. I think one thing I can really action from this is examining my motivations in conversations/activities.
[10:11 AM] rosalyn j:
[10:13 AM] !!benquack!!: So, like, if I wanted to talk about something to let someone know I had their back, or to try to offer someone support, all gucci, but if I'm doing it to try to make myself look good, or out of anger (when I know a conversation isn't going to do any good), then I should maybe think about that, and try to go about it a bit differently?
[10:14 AM] rosalyn j: see how that works for you
[10:14 AM] !!benquack!!: yeah, cool!
[10:16 AM] !!benquack!!: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: all the thanks! may the Force be with you! and I hope you have an awesome day/night!!!
[10:16 AM] rosalyn j: you as well
[10:16 AM] rosalyn j: MTFBWY
[10:16 AM] rosalyn j: see you tomorrow?
[10:16 AM] !!benquack!!: ... I might have work, but I'll try to be on here! :smiley:
[10:17 AM] rosalyn j: awesome
[10:17 AM] rosalyn j: I'll see what we can do about a log
[10:17 AM] rosalyn j: as I see only a few messages made it through
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[10:18 AM] Nakis [Work]: Let me try to post?