Whatever Happened to the Knights?

Thanks Barger. I too understand the importance of Offline Jedi-ing, given my 18 month hiatus. It also wan't a criticism of the knights, I've argued in support of them plenty in the past, just a query

Honestly why I didn't continue pursuing my knighthood here. I couldn't make an honest commitment of time.

I am just bumping this because I believe this is a discussion worth having, and do not want to see it fall to the wayside.

I'm not here because the rest of the membership has decided to allow this place to descend into chaos, and it no longer enriches my life. If that changes, I'll become active again, but until people are willing to let me help, all I'm doing is spinning my wheels here.

Wait. How many Knights are there? I thought the site had maybe 10. I've only seen like 3 post anything... granted I've only been here for a day and a half now.

One of the ... pros and cons of a international self paced honor system type of Temple is at any given time there can be two or 20 present or none. Internationally- not every one CAN be present on the same schedule. Some go for week some go per month some go longer as far as logging on. It’s a huge mix of availability and dedications some times. Balance is hard on time some times.

@Brian Also you mentioned this topic about "to be focus" on: the spiritual/faith side of things.

Then, Which spiritual aspect would you like to evoke?

Random edge: If my spiritual vision could be a personal relation in my inner and external world, then:
How can Jediism can be applied to gain strength to create goals into reality? Would you like to create a thread around?

May the Focus be with Us

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steamboat28 wrote: I'm not here because the rest of the membership has decided to allow this place to descend into chaos, and it no longer enriches my life. If that changes, I'll become active again, but until people are willing to let me help, all I'm doing is spinning my wheels here.

Steam, I am asking this in the most direct way I can so if it comes off offensive please let me know, I'm not trying to be a jerk. How in your eyes has it descended into chaos? How do we change that? And would it be helpful if a few knights such as yourself that feel this way were to grab on to and help guide some of the discussions away from the chaotic path they seem to take? Isn't that what we are supposed to be doing as Jedi? Aren't many things only as enriching as we make them?

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

Kobos wrote: How in your eyes has it descended into chaos? How do we change that?

Banned members are having their punishments ignored so they can traipse around the entire forum, sowing discontent and spewing hatred. Knights abandoned their posts (myself included) for various reasons. The Council makes decisions slowly, then doesn't stick with them, and rarely listens to the desires of the membership. Certain other members are consistently problematic in that they refuse to abide by the rules of this space or the doctrine posted at the door, and yet are welcomed here above members who do follow the rules and uphold doctrine as stated. Many among the membership trade only in "wizened, mystical" nonsense that doesn't even have koan-like depth. Things like that.

Kobos wrote: And would it be helpful if a few knights such as yourself that feel this way were to grab on to and help guide some of the discussions away from the chaotic path they seem to take? Isn't that what we are supposed to be doing as Jedi? Aren't many things only as enriching as we make them?

Y'know, I'm gonna second what was said earlier--nobody listens. Nobody has ever, in the whole history of me calling this crap out for at least seven years, listened to me in any real, meaningful way. No matter how loud or soft, no matter how pleasant or angry, no matter how passionate or logical, I get ignored.

And after so many years of that, you just stop trying to change anything because you know it's wasted effort.

steamboat28 wrote: [
Banned members are having their punishments ignored so they can traipse around the entire forum, sowing discontent and spewing hatred.

I can absolutely understand this sentiment, I know personally in my mind one individual that in light of recent event should be welcomed back but the choice is not mine to make. As for the spewing hate part I for sure see this too, but shouldn't we try to respond with logical love? Would conversation work to undo the spread of this hate? As I write this one of those that we may consider a source of is busy shooting themselves in the foot on the level of having any one take them seriously.

Kobos wrote: And would it be helpful if a few knights such as yourself that feel this way were to grab on to and help guide some of the discussions away from the chaotic path they seem to take? Isn't that what we are supposed to be doing as Jedi? Aren't many things only as enriching as we make them?

Y'know, I'm gonna second what was said earlier--nobody listens. Nobody has ever, in the whole history of me calling this crap out for at least seven years, listened to me in any real, meaningful way. No matter how loud or soft, no matter how pleasant or angry, no matter how passionate or logical, I get ignored.

And after so many years of that, you just stop trying to change anything because you know it's wasted effort.

I can also see this for sure. It's huge for I think any member who has been here for a while. Can something be done here?I know I have personally felt the burn out from my perspective because we feel like we are fighting the tide of what we dislike on our own.
How do we work together on this, can we?

Thank you for you're honest answers!
Much Love,
Kobos

Some listen even learn from what is written.
Your wrong that its a wasted effort, I miss the strong voices of so many knights that have left or felt forced to leave.
But I respect those that continue to be here, as I respect your reasons for walking away.

I know there are knights here that still deal with apprentices and help, sometimes in the background as there are the more vocal ones such as Carlos

Kobos wrote: I can also see this for sure. It's huge for I think any member who has been here for a while. Can something be done here?I know I have personally felt the burn out from my perspective because we feel like we are fighting the tide of what we dislike on our own.
How do we work together on this, can we?

This is why I think so many people blame the leadership, Kobos, because they have the responsibility to set an example and actually lead. The best leaders take counsel from those led, and we're not seeing either of those things happening here. The leadership should be either taking a stand or stepping aside where there are issues, and we're seeing complacency instead.

So, I think you are on to something here because those being led for sure look to leaders for example. I know as Elizabeth (thank you) stated there are those who learn from what is written and are actively listening still, just tend to be the quiet ones. But from another angle many of us who are under the rank of knight look to knights to lead us in the discussions, I know that we can do better than we are on being active (at least myself, I have been trying to lately). Perhaps this activity across all levels is what will fuel active leadership, is that a possibility? Or is it possible we govern our own actions only appealing to the council in deep times of need?

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

The Knights definitely also have a responsibility to step up, but anytime the Knights, as a body, have asked for things to be done to better this Temple and place of sacred learning, I've seen them shot down. That isn't conducive to an environment that makes Knights want to lead.

So, as an apprentice or whatever rank really what can we do to build this environment independent of the councils actions?

Sorry I know you are taking a lot of questions again thank you for indulging me.

Much Love,
Kobos

As apprentices, you can keep your knights accountable.
As initiates, you can ask questions, especially when you feel a ruling or action is unfair.

Thank you Steam! This was an excellent conversation please weigh in some more if and when you come up with anything else!

Any other Knights up to have a discussion?

Much Love,
Kobos

Any perception about the quantity and quality of human values of all the posts is valid...

I propose that the action of feeding/reply the posts will be disabled from the website as an experiment of a couple of months or indefinitely. Because "Fighting in a forum" could be a distraction from an individual progress.

Knowing how to debate ideas is important, I agree, but if "statistics shows" that it is a distraction from individual progress, then learning the rhetoric of the debate could be left to closed rooms to people who do not take things personally, but at same way only admit people who respect and direct dialogues to build harmony, this is a Jedi website temple.

Closing the "activity to reply", could help that each person would focus on their own challenges, Jedi progress, journals, readings or inner development with the IP. The quality focus between teachers and apprentices will increase too. Instead of debating the debates about what the "newspaper at the main door of the TOTJO" brings to the spotlight towards the TOTJO "content statistics".

Behind the labels of Apprentices or Knights,
Humans we are, not just this dusty keyboards

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Jhannuzs Ian wrote: Any perception about the quantity and quality of human values of all the posts is valid...

I propose that the action of feeding/reply the posts will be disabled from the website as an experiment of a couple of months or indefinitely. Because "Fighting in a forum" could be a distraction from an individual progress.

Knowing how to debate ideas is important, I agree, but if "statistics shows" that it is a distraction from individual progress, then learning the rhetoric of the debate could be left to closed rooms to people who do not take things personally, but at same way only admit people who respect and direct dialogues to build harmony, this is a Jedi website temple.

Closing the "activity to reply", could help that each person would focus on their own challenges, Jedi progress, journals, readings or inner development with the IP. The quality focus between teachers and apprentices will increase too. Instead of debating the debates about what the "newspaper at the main door of the TOTJO" brings to the spotlight towards the TOTJO "content statistics".

Behind the labels of Apprentices or Knights,
Humans we are, not just this dusty keyboards

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I actually don't agree with this. There will always be things we take personally but isn't that an opportunity to grow and learn, however we engage in the forums it is a chance to choose how to act. Step back, think, or even not engage in certain threads.
Self control
Self regulation
We choose to participate and we personally choose to continue to learn or be distracted.
If we cut of the forums in a sense to all but a select few what exactly would we learn from that?
It's us that feed these threads... or us that let them die
We have a choice and às adults should be choosing wisely.

@Elizabeth

Hi Elizabeth, all your reasons won me, I withdraw my proposal, I was too drastic

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