Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems

Manami wrote: As for conflict areas, my previous affiliation used a very clear guideline on how conflicts were to be handled and the expectations we had for members' behavior (a Pax Templi, or "Peace of the Temple" code). In looking over the FAQ, I don't see a "How to handle conflicts" section (and if I missed it while specifically looking for it, it's buried too deep.) I did see the general rules (RESPECT, language, etc.), but so far nothing that covers the primary problem I've seen in the forums: the tendency for a personal dispute to be made into a community discussion by dragging in supporters or being brought into unrelated threads. Once that contagion gets going, and/or personality feuds become part of the culture, it's very hard to manage and also makes it a confusing and unwelcoming place for new people.

A clear Peace code should outline:

You know we're gonna draft you to help us draft this now, right?

I think this is something we should start work on within the next couple of weeks.

I think one of the biggest issues here and with the Jedi community, in general, is a failure to apply Halons razor, it loosely states that one should never attribute to malice what can easily be attributed to ignorance. Or in this case, you can substitute tiredness, lack of tone, or any number of things. We tend to assume the worst instead of clarifying meaning. By we I mean the collective we. I am just as guilty of it as anyone.

From there we tend to not let go of bad views of people or events. We fail to try to understand the reasons things might happen. We hold on to our own truths from our own point of view and forget to look at the other persons. That goes for those who do the upsetting and those who get upset. Both sides need to try to see the other point of view.

Finally, we all forget to apply the basics and step back when we need them most. A good example was my wording to Nami when I was tired and frustrated with other stuff. I was shorter then I needed to be, said something that did not need to be said so I had to eat crow over that and apologize for the wording publicly. We all need to take responsibility for our half of things and be mindful of our reactions. That goes not just for here but for Jedi as a whole.

Oh and I like the concept you put forward Manami. I hope to see you stick around here a long time. That was some quality advice and something we need more of. Which I think points to another issue. Too much saying this or that is wrong and not enough offering suggestions on how to fix it. Even if we are not always going to get what we want problem-solving like Manami did is more productive then just pointing out flaws.

Avalonslight wrote: So what do I think can be done to improve this?

Well first, regarding the clergy (and please, I'm not trying to bash, just draw attention to where I see a major issue), I'd like to draw attention back to the job description of the Outreach Pastor . So far, the majority that I've seen come out of the Outreach Team has been related to community service. By no means am I saying that's a bad thing! It helps portray the temple in a positive light to the communities around us. But.... that's not what the job description said.

When I talk with those who I've seen struggling around the site, the majority of them have said something to the lines of they haven't had someone from the clergy reach out to them. Yes, we have a "chat with the clergy" button at the top of the site, but often times those who come through here struggling are also the sort that mentally think to themselves "Well I don't want to bother them." Back to my personal experience mentioned above, the only reason I ended up speaking with that Pastor I mentioned is because they first approached me. "How are you doing? You seem a little down." So instead of waiting for the person who's obviously struggling to reach out to you, extend the first hand instead. And I'm not saying that that's not happening, but it's obviously an area that requires improvement.

I completely agree. But as I posted just a few days ago, we don't see everything. I read journals and opens and keep half an eye on the wall, and when I see something I reach out. But i can't spend much time in chat. So i rely on others to point me to signs of crisis that i might be missing.

Bottom line: If you see something that indicates a member or guest could use clerical outreach, tell us. Tell me, tell Carlos, tell any member of the clergy that you see. The worst that could happen is ill reply that I am on it and applaud you for looking out for your fellows.

Atticus,

LOL - if nothing else, I can dig out some of the old ones we've used and some good examples to help with the process.

Manami wrote: Atticus,

LOL - if nothing else, I can dig out some of the old ones we've used and some good examples to help with the process.

Heh, that's the gist of the pm I just sent ya. Love the way the Force works.

Sure. That's why I said it was a community effort. Nor did I mean to imply the things I mentioned don't happen (or only exclusively happen, as it might be with the negative). The OP asked for what problems we perceived within Temple culture. I merely pointed out what myself, and quite a few others, have been saying for months are some of those problems. Or areas that have room for improvement.

Refusing to acknowledge or accept that these areas of improvement exist doesn't make them disappear. Nor does a chunk of the community brushing them under the rug or failing to acknowledge that those are areas they need to personally improve.

As a church, I would hope that we want to adopt a culture where said areas are improved, and I tried to provide general suggestions on how to do so.

As it stands right now, TOTJO doesn't come across as a place where those who have emotional troubles can find refuge in a widely supportive community, which is what people seek for in a church community. We have slowly become a more exclusive community and less of a church community. And that doesn't seem to be something many people are acknowledging.

But I've had my say on the matter. I'll be curious to see where it goes from here.

I get what you're saying, Ava. This is something I very much want to improve too, and I've been plenty vocal about it, so I know you're not implying that *I* don't acknowledge there's a problem. I'm only trying to point out that sometimes neither the member in distress nor the clergy are in the best position to see when clerical outreach might be warranted.

The Clergy need to be seen as approachable.
I had and have got questions regarding the Jedi faith.
But when you are new to the temple, it is hard to make contact with someone that is not known to you. What if its a question that will seem stupid once the answer is known.
It can lead to fear of ridicule, so you don't ask.
A bond of trust needs to be established with new members.
Its easy to say read the FAQ's
But is that all that's needed?

Given the purpose of this thread I'm going to be uncharacteristically blunt. It is not my intention to offend anyone but if I do, I hope that the offended parties take some time and step away to really think about why what I said offended them before replying. Now on to it.

Personally, the biggest issues that I see facing this Temple have barely been mentioned in this thread, and honestly I don't think that they should be. Those are issues for a different time and a more specific audience.

One problem that I do see that I'd like to bring up is, ironically, the feeling that all of our problems need to be aired out publicly for the world to read. Not every problem needs to be a public one, especially ones that start via PM or are problems with one particular person. This Temple does have processes in place for dealing with these sorts of issues and they should be followed. The purpose of the forum is not to talk in circles about our problems with the Temple or our fellow Jedi, but to learn and grow. Yes, sometimes that involves discussing our problems with each other, but we gain nothing from finger pointing, name calling, and general whining about this, that, and whatever else is bothering us today.

The first thing a new person visiting this Temple sees should not be three newly created threads about why our feelings got hurt or just general complaining. Even the threads who's sole purpose is to bring about positive interactions start by saying "in light of recent negativity." That's not exactly confidence inspiring.

Lastly, the name of this thread implies that the issues are wide spread and involve everyone. That's not to say that most of us are blameless, I know that I am not blameless, but if we are really honest with ourselves and really examine the threads leading up to this one we see not the thousands of members or even the hundred or so regularly active members here as Zenchi has mentioned. We see a select few, a vocal minority, arguing back and forth. Can five or so people really be called a cultural issue?

Now of those select few, many (most, actually) have only the Temple's best interest at heart. Some, though, are just rabble rousing. It's hard to tell the difference but not impossible.

One thing that we can all do is remember how many of us do just have the Temple's best interest at heart, how many of us just want to help, and we help no one by arguing with each other all the time. Remember that arguing only feeds the rabble rousers and dissuades those with pure motives.

Thank you all for reading and for working tirelessly for the members of this Temple. May the Force be with you.

Stephen wrote: The Clergy need to be seen as approachable.
I had and have got questions regarding the Jedi faith.
But when you are new to the temple, it is hard to make contact with someone that is not known to you. What if its a question that will seem stupid once the answer is known.
It can lead to fear of ridicule, so you don't ask.
A bond of trust needs to be established with new members.
Its easy to say read the FAQ's
But is that all that's needed?

Clergy is great for spiritual problems, we actually have a "Contact Clergy" button at the top if you need to get in contact with them.

As for questions about Jediism, we have the chat at the bottom right hand corner of the screen. Someone is usually online to be able to help If anything, my inbox is always open to questions.

Stephen wrote: The Clergy need to be seen as approachable.
I had and have got questions regarding the Jedi faith.
But when you are new to the temple, it is hard to make contact with someone that is not known to you. What if its a question that will seem stupid once the answer is known.
It can lead to fear of ridicule, so you don't ask.
A bond of trust needs to be established with new members.
Its easy to say read the FAQ's
But is that all that's needed?

Thank you, my man, this is really helpful. I mean, I know just about all the clergy, and there isn't one of them that wouldn't have my back in a heartbeat. But you're exactly right, someone walking in off the street wouldn't necessarily know that.

I'm very interested in hearing anyone's ideas about how the clergy can improve their approachability. I have a couple simple things that I do, but I am aware that I'm not the most visible cleric out there.

(As a postscript, there are to my knowledge at least three or four productive conversations happening now as a result of this thread. That's just the ones I'm in on. It makes me happy to see so many people working to take what is said here and turn it into positive action planning for the good of the Temple.)

I tried to use the contact Clergy button and the form to fill out was easy to fill out.
But, to write down a personal question about your faith / belief and then send it to ? I don't know who. Then hope to get an email or whatever response some time soon.
It felt like filing a request. Not sending a message to a spiritual guide.
I would have liked to know who the Clergy were and how to PM them.
This is a Temple / a Church.
The Clergy or Cleric or Pastor should be easy to contact / message.
I hope my experience can be used in a positive way. It is not a bad thing if knowledge is gained.

In response to Stephen's message: Maybe a "meet the clergy" thread, a bit like the "meet the teachers" thread would make avatars more into real people? And that thread would have to be easily visible, so maybe link it in with some signposts from the IP Lesson 0 or in the FAQs?

Twigga wrote: In response to Stephen's message: Maybe a "meet the clergy" thread, a bit like the "meet the teachers" thread would make avatars more into real people? And that thread would have to be easily visible, so maybe link it in with some signposts from the IP Lesson 0 or in the FAQs?

I like the idea of a meet the clergy form and I am working on some stuff to make it easy to find some basics

Twigga wrote: In response to Stephen's message: Maybe a "meet the clergy" thread, a bit like the "meet the teachers" thread would make avatars more into real people? And that thread would have to be easily visible, so maybe link it in with some signposts from the IP Lesson 0 or in the FAQs?

This. Yes. Excellent idea Twigga!

So, what I see here is a need for clear guidelines about what we can and can’t offer as a church along with clear steps we will take when behavior issues arise. This will be provided to all members and we will answer any questions that arise from it. This is being worked on as I write this.

Next, our Clergy will continue efforts to reach out and support those in need while still being conscious of when outside professional help is more appropriate. This has always been the case, but we can make these efforts more obvious to the membership at large.

We will encourage everyone here to act with patience and compassion and take interpersonal drama out of the public forum and into PMs. This could include a new lesson in the IP and/or lessons required for those who need a refresher after an incident.

As a Security Officer, I realize that this will create an increased need for me to be attentive, transparent, and fair while enforcing the agreed upon code of conduct. I will do my best to be strict, but also understanding and open to criticism. I am prepared to take a more active role, but like Atticus points out about Clergy, I will need help from people who notice things going South before they get out of control. PM me, hit me up on Skype, contact me on Facebook Messenger, whatever works and I’ll respond as soon as possible. I will also publicly explain any actions I take in order to allow oversight from others and prevent any sense of favoritism.

We’re in this together, and we’re taking the appropriate steps to improve this Temple. Thank you all for the input and for supporting the leadership here as we try to enact these improvements.

Where there is doubt, faith.

Ah so one of the issues is that that Contact Clergy button is nameless?

In response to twigga, we can defenately make a "clergy: who we are thread"

we could probably do something like a "meet the team" for all offices

Stephen wrote: I tried to use the contact Clergy button and the form to fill out was easy to fill out.
But, to write down a personal question about your faith / belief and then send it to ? I don't know who. Then hope to get an email or whatever response some time soon.
It felt like filing a request. Not sending a message to a spiritual guide.
I would have liked to know who the Clergy were and how to PM them.
This is a Temple / a Church.
The Clergy or Cleric or Pastor should be easy to contact / message.
I hope my experience can be used in a positive way. It is not a bad thing if knowledge is gained.

It's funny, the "contact clergy" button was created to make it easier for people to reach us without having to ask around or without us having to link to the FAQ. If it's not having the desired effect of making the respondent feel comfortable, perhaps we need to rework it.

When I first read your response, Stephen, what popped into my head was when you click on "contact clergy," you get a pop-up 30-second video of half a dozen or so of us introducing ourselves and what we do and what we can offer. I have no idea whether it would be do-able (Tom?) so maybe a "meet the clergy" thread would be the next best thing.




(And then I'll push for video submissions from the clergy to add to it. )

Atticus, I'm working on a project that could dovetail that one. Pm me if that idea goes forward, please.