Rogue One and the Return of Reverence

steamboat28 wrote: Well, Jedi are irreparably corrupt, and maintained a stranglehold and monopoly on the Force, if you want to insist on such a crude, incorrect, and obviously biased metaphor.

Oh rearry??
Well your incorruptable heros also used jedi mind tricks, aggresive negotiation not unlike gunboat diplomacy and outright manipulation to get their way. Case in point is qui-gons manipulation of dice to change the output of a bet for Anakin. Are these "Jedi" you hold in an incorruptable reguard really those all benevolent characters or could they maybe, possibly be concieved of as heros to some but villians to others?

You maybe wanna give that a second go?

steamboat28 wrote:

Kyrin clearly didn't actually read my post, but replied anyhow

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

steamboat28 wrote: Well, Jedi are irreparably corrupt, and maintained a stranglehold and monopoly on the Force, if you want to insist on such a crude, incorrect, and obviously biased metaphor.

Oh rearry??
Well your incorruptable heros also used jedi mind tricks, aggresive negotiation not unlike gunboat diplomacy and outright manipulation to get their way. Case in point is qui-gons manipulation of dice to change the output of a bet for Anakin. Are these "Jedi" you hold in an incorruptable reguard really those all benevolent characters or could they maybe, possibly be concieved of as heros to some but villians to others?

You maybe wanna give that a second go?

And maybe pull out a dictionary in the process?

I'd view reverence in this context as being a type of internal 'focus', recruiting inner strength or awareness etc.

Avalonslight wrote:

steamboat28 wrote:

Kyrin clearly didn't actually read my post, but replied anyhow

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

steamboat28 wrote: Well, Jedi are irreparably corrupt, and maintained a stranglehold and monopoly on the Force, if you want to insist on such a crude, incorrect, and obviously biased metaphor.

Oh rearry??
Well your incorruptable heros also used jedi mind tricks, aggresive negotiation not unlike gunboat diplomacy and outright manipulation to get their way. Case in point is qui-gons manipulation of dice to change the output of a bet for Anakin. Are these "Jedi" you hold in an incorruptable reguard really those all benevolent characters or could they maybe, possibly be concieved of as heros to some but villians to others?

You maybe wanna give that a second go?

And maybe pull out a dictionary in the process?

Immediate dismissal to the grammer police. Your on the internet, babe, get over it.

@steamboat,

What second go would you like? I agree with your idea that the force has no will. It is only the will of men that manifest. In this we can go against the natural order of the universe or not. And in that we can percieve that the universe will either retaliate against that or not. But to possess the ability to actually manipulate that will to our own means is a very catholic paradigm. I have always found it fascinating that two opposing forces in a military conflict can pray to the very same percieved god and both sides be convinced that that god is on their side.

The force takes no sides. It is only the subjective opinions of men that create sides and it is also those same men that create false hierarchies of control and illusions of acceptance or judgement. As well it is men, not the force, that create false aspects of reverence verses control.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Avalonslight wrote:

steamboat28 wrote:

Kyrin clearly didn't actually read my post, but replied anyhow

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

steamboat28 wrote: Well, Jedi are irreparably corrupt, and maintained a stranglehold and monopoly on the Force, if you want to insist on such a crude, incorrect, and obviously biased metaphor.

Oh rearry??
Well your incorruptable heros also used jedi mind tricks, aggresive negotiation not unlike gunboat diplomacy and outright manipulation to get their way. Case in point is qui-gons manipulation of dice to change the output of a bet for Anakin. Are these "Jedi" you hold in an incorruptable reguard really those all benevolent characters or could they maybe, possibly be concieved of as heros to some but villians to others?

You maybe wanna give that a second go?

And maybe pull out a dictionary in the process?

Immediate dismissal to the grammer police. Your on the internet, babe, get over it.

@steamboat,

What second go would you like? I agree with your idea that the force has no will. It is only the will of men that manifest. In this we can go against the natural order of the universe or not. And in that we can percieve that the universe will either retaliate against that or not. But to possess the ability to actually manipulate that will to our own means is a very catholic paradigm. I have always found it fascinating that two opposing forces in a military conflict can pray to the very same percieved god and both sides be convinced that that god is on their side.

The force takes no sides. It is only the subjective opinions of men that create sides and it is also those same men that create false hierarchies of control and illusions of acceptance or judgement. As well it is men, not the force, that create false aspects of reverence verses control.

That wasn't a grammar police moment, Kyrin. That was a suggestion on what you needed for the second approach Steam said, since you're clearly misunderstanding a key phrase in his post. But hey, you wanna be prickly and not take it, be my guest. So totally done dealing with you.

steamboat28 wrote:

Potential Actual Film Spoilers

Senan wrote: ... without having the ability to manipulate it toward his own ends.

I don't know that he didn't, honestly. There's a line of thinking in most energy-working and magickal circles that intent shapes will, and will shapes the world. He could have had just as much potential as any average Jedi, and just never realized it because his training wasn't as intense. He relied on the Force subconsciously, and it responded. That's still manipulation of the Force, whether or not we or even Chirrut see it that way.

The only way we'll know if Chirrut was doing so or wasn't would be for Disney Lucasfilms/arts/whatever it is these days, to provide us a greater background on the history of the organization he was a part of prior to its destruction. My feeling on the matter is that given Chirrut's apparent age, he should have been discovered by the Jedi Order, especially given the apparent significance his home site seems to have to the Order. I would also think that if he had been truly force sensitive, that particular order would have made sure he got to the Jedi Order... And, if we examine the Empire's actions on other stories (Rebels, books, EU and canon both), I think someone who was force sensitive within Imperial territory would have been dealt with by the Empire.

Then again, it could be that his force sensitivity was so extremely mild that you're completely correct. Either way, we won't know that unless we get a background on both the location and that order. Which frankly, I'm dying for us to get. I love the fact that we're getting new aspects of the Sw myth and I want them to give us more about it.

The whole thing did not sit well with me, I felt that the movie was trying to imply the Force actually takes sides, or that it is some sort of deity to pray to.

Magnus Staar wrote: The whole thing did not sit well with me, I felt that the movie was trying to imply the Force actually takes sides, or that it is some sort of deity to pray to.

Canonically, it does, and it is.