Kabbalah Course Discussion Group

the biggest parallel i always draw with everything to taoism is the idea that basically there are two "things"

that which exists
and that from which it comes

in most every system you find this basic dichotomy because it is unavoidable lol its the only way we can relate to existence

taoism has a high emphasis on the idea that the source is unknowable
but you find most systems actually have a parallel to that idea

nagualism for instance insists that as soon as you name the nagual it becomes a part of the intellectual inventory ie the tonal and that the nagual is the only part of us (or existence) with the power to genuinely create something new

the tonal makes classifications out of what the nagual has created

even christianity has passages such as "the lords ways are higher than your ways just like the stars are high above your heads" (thats a paraphrase)

i wont be surprised if the 21 steps of reunification turn out to have parallels to a lot of other systems

from what i have seen the work is the same for everybody, its only the way and structure the ideas are presented which really changes

but im wrong all the time lol so dont take me too serious

anyway this is very cool!

Connor L. wrote: The end of the video with the questions of gods' names... Yeah, it's interesting. I think you have to understand that most people taking the course will have not studied religion before. Most people coming to Kabbalah come from the desire to make that connection for the first time. So, it was probably just confusing for them, whereas I felt like it was a pretty basic thing to ask.

Some people do not yet know how to separate spirituality from deity from religion from ___.

I guess I take my knowledge beyond religion for granted.. I've questioned religion since I was a teenager. I forget sometimes some people have never done so..

Mareeka wrote: Connor: "there is no path, everything is the path."

While Kabbalah has a "method" which I take to mean a path, I get a sense that it is a path of everything on the path."

That is quite possible. To be honest, I do not know enough about it yet to fully understand what they mean by it. Thank you for the thought.

Why do you take method to mean path? Do you feel method is a collection of totality? So, it defines how we view everything?

Exactly, Edan. It's astonishing, the vast number of people who have never even considered a higher power beyond a familial forced introduction through Sunday School. haha.

Ob1, feel free to watch (or speed through.. they stall a lot) the course video if you want.

Have you studied Kabbalah before?

Also, thanks for those thoughts! I'm sure I'm going to enjoy this.

Edan wrote:
The question about the purpose of studying the Kabbalah was interesting, about whether attaining greater pleasure was the sole purpose. I don't think I've ever come across the idea of 'spiritual pleasure'... the end purpose is becoming as the creator, but this spiritual pleasure is entirely new to me.

I have heard something like this before: we are here in our life to transform from misery to happy, the purpose of being alive.
Mostly, out of east - Indian wisdom traditions.
Maybe the idea of heaven in the New Testament was never supposed to be an after-life concept.
Maybe that was a mutilation of the older wisdom traditions?

spiritual pleasure:

present day words we hear: being in the now, being in the flow . . . just adding a few to Connor's

Mareeka wrote: Maybe that was a mutilation of the older wisdom traditions?

Also possible, I doubt it would be the only time something was mistaken over time.

Connor L. wrote:
Why do you take method to mean path? Do you feel method is a collection of totality? So, it defines how we view everything?

I take method to mean process.

i havent, no

i was introduced to the kaballah tree of life many years ago (probably around 1996 or so when someone i knew introduced me to the works of aliester crowely but when i began to follow up on kaballah i found that it was a secret system (turns out i would have been just in time if id have looked further lol life is funny!) and so i made the judgement call that the people who really understand the kaballah arent talking about it and basically just disregarded whatever i may have encountered on the subject for that reason

also i meant to say that when he talks about how we arent in touch with the full picture of higher spiritual truth that this basic idea is fundamental to all paths

that might be in a later video
i have only my cell phone for most of the day and it isnt compatable with flash player

i had actually given up on being able to participate in the thread but i basically highjacked the laptop for a couple hours and so i watched as much as i could while i had the chance lol

anyway, on the idea of seperation from higher truth there are parallels all over

maya is a common word
mamon is usually taken to mean only money but imo the idea is much bigger than that

but im impressed with the quality of the system so fa
i do see a sort of scientific approach and i like that

Mareeka, Nice.

I also see it as "instruction manual".

I also like how the instructor went through what Kabbalah was not:

Satan
Mysticism
Religion

Any others? I didn't write them down.


I have wanted to know what the Kabbalah was for a long time.
I am glad the books were opened in 1996.

Mareeka wrote: I also like how the instructor went through what Kabbalah was not:

Satan
Mysticism
Religion

Any others? I didn't write them down.

I have wanted to know what the Kabbalah was for a long time.
I am glad the books were opened in 1996.

Poor Satan, blamed for everything that people don't understand!

I've done a bit of study on the Kabbalah previously as I am also studying the Qliphoth.. will be interesting to see how much I've picked up so far.

We're lucky that they believe that it should be free in order that we may learn.. tuition of this kind is often paid for.

What do you guys think about Mysticism's place in our modern world? Is there merit?

I think the words are outdated and that we have lots of individuals that are born truth seekers.

What do you guys think about Mysticism's place in our modern world? Is there merit?

I think there is merit in anything that brings someone more understanding.

the definition of mysticism has sort of evolved - or maybe itsjust become more open
essentially mysticism as the word is used today is the unification of the individual with the whole of reality or at least the sublime
ostensibly the sublime experience is in effect tje divine experience and so to be unified is an ecstacy from which we draw not only happiness but also wisdom and purpose

every now and again i like to look up the definition of the word "sublime"

the path of the mystic is imo simply one linguistic interpretation of the path of knowledge

lol or is it the other way around?

i think mysticism is great
its referenced with "occult" and often (in new age) its associated with "alchemy" which i dont know a fig about what the old alchemist "mystics" really did or belived but its presented now that the word of the day in the alchemist tradition is "transformation"

which i dont know of a system that ISNT about transformation, including our exciting (IM excited!) forray into what ive always heard described as "jewish mysticism" the kaballah

oh and again im not sure which video its in but kabbalah as its explained here DEFINITELY has a yin/yang concept of giving and recieving

i dont recall if he mentioned this but the word itself actually MEANS "to recieve" and he explains that is part of our nature

i dont want to say more because i think im talking about videos ahead of where we're at in the convo but imo its not possoble to develop a system that will.actually work for elevating consciousness without pretty much hitting on the same ideas that have always been used to develop consciousness

the awesomeness for me is when i find something which offers new (to me) way of explaining something which i relate to more meaningfully than what i had before

Edan wrote:

Mareeka wrote: I also like how the instructor went through what Kabbalah was not:

Satan
Mysticism
Religion

Any others? I didn't write them down.

I have wanted to know what the Kabbalah was for a long time.
I am glad the books were opened in 1996.

Poor Satan, blamed for everything that people don't understand!

I've done a bit of study on the Kabbalah previously as I am also studying the Qliphoth.. will be interesting to see how much I've picked up so far.

We're lucky that they believe that it should be free in order that we may learn.. tuition of this kind is often paid for.

I reviewed our discussion on Lesson 1 . . .I wanted to add a note on "What Kabbalah is not."
The instructors did bring up the things that people say the Kabbalah is and which are incorrect descriptions

They did not criticize: Satanism, mysticism, philosophy, religion . . . absolutely zero opinions on any of them.

Has everyone watched the second video now?

For some reason I couldn't get the video to run properly so I had to suffer with only audio and I did so while I was doing something else so I have only very brief notes.

Here is what I do have:

Process of development… be more than animal… be fully conscious
Creator created to bring pleasure to the created

We are a vessel.. a desire to receive pleasure. We are not just the body..
The only thing created was the desire to receive pleasure.

Creator is the will to bestow.. we have the desire to receive, but this brings us to want to bestow back

Humans suffer from control.. ‘growing ego’ as we develop

Still Level - the things we need to survive (natural responses, same as animals)
Vegetative Level - Riches.. gain something over others
Animate Level - level of control - development but only for itself
Human Level - knowledge

By the end of the human level, we move up towards the creator consciously
Purpose is to reveal what is already there but what we cannot perceive; we were there originally but we could not perceive it.
Our current era shows the increasing desire for spirituality
As we get to the ‘point in the heart', previous things that fulfilled desire are no longer enough. Nothing lasting.

He/she in Kabbalah is not about physical gender but about whether one bestows or receives; so a man who is receiving is she, regardless of his gender.

The third one is out now also.

What I took away from the second;

Creator is not an entity even though referred to as he.
The Creator is Force or Essence and it is Giving; therefore, referred symbolically as he.

Kli is the vessel which receives. The creation which receives. It is neither male not female, nor form, but it is symbolically referred to as she.

None of the wisdom is about forms as we define them. It is all allegory.

The states (stiil, vegetative, animate and human) are symbols of phases that are gone through.
Still (basic instincts) Vegetative (acquiring, getting) Animate (control and territorial over others) Human (quest for knowledge) until ultimately the question comes What is the meaning of life?

So after a full descent, the question/the point in the heart is an ascent. A conscious decision to adhere with the Force/Creator.
Up the steps that were come down. The "steps" down are like the growing of the ego.

Our 5 senses tell us that we are different from 7 billion others.
Everything is generated on desire to receive pleasure.
Certain desire is embedded in form to stay in form.
What happens when new level of desire emerges but not from external circumstance

With the 20th century, the desire is growing, the pleasure is not lasting.

The next step is attainment.
The desire to give (Force/Creator) and the desire to receive (Kli) are not two separate entities or opposites
They are brought together as one.
(here i see the yin yang symbol)
Degrees of expansion of the force are neither (large or small, internal or external) all ego and exchanged for bestowal.