Attention council members (suggestions from those you lead)

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2 years 10 months ago #360306 by Alethea Thompson
I have been here for some time and watched as people who tried to move forward on projects lost drive because they felt they had no support from their peers- or from the council over the years.

They’d either get told (in a round about way) that their work wasn’t worth pursuing by people in power. I happen to be stubborn, so those calls didn’t dissuade me from the project that I never heard what the results were (updating the Doctrine). While it would be simple to write it off as “Alethea is a bit of a nuisance, the fact of the matter is I heard these stories long before I tried any projects here.

Patience certainly is an aspect of the Jedi Path, but there are points where you have to cut your losses because it seems no one will move. And that’s where the damage comes in for so many. Again, I’m not talking about my circumstances but of the others I e witnessed, and I didn’t contribute to the initial survey.

I can’t say what you do (or don’t do) when it comes to counseling candidates & TMs on how people can improve to get their knighthood- I haven’t hit that point yet. But I can say that in the military it’s a common practice for a candidate of anything to be told how they can improve for the next review- things they need to work on in order to get there. IF this isn’t in practice, perhaps it’s something that should become practice, so candidates don’t feel like they are getting a run around waiting on things to happen?

RyuJin, I understand the “it’s all been done before” argument. And I get that so many people have been upset over things implemented. But let me put a different question forward for the whole council: What values do you wish for TotJO to have and how can those be achieved?

You see, I’ve been listening to a book that talks about getting a church moving forward (it’s by the ,founder of an organization that helps get churches unstuck and growing again, and their formula has been working wonders in these organizations) and the author said something that really struck a chord with me (paraphrased): You can’t make your church a People-Pleasing Church, you should stand by your organizational ethics & values. By sticking by them, the members of the congregation that really value what your church will start to align with them or find they have other needs that can be fulfilled elsewhere.

In short, I feel the council should have a heart-to-heart about what things you want to see in this group. What kind of growth? What kind of transparency? What ethics you believe should be leading the organization. And once you have that- build on tactics for how you can see that happen- and how you’ll hold leadership accountable for their team role in these strategies.

It doesn’t mean killing projects already in place-as an example, the weekly work m on the Discord seems to be doing a lot of good community building. :)

Gather at the River,
Setanaoko Oceana
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2 years 10 months ago #360311 by River
Thank you, Zero, for realizing that there were concerns and questions happening for people who had no clear or comfortable way of conveying them to the Council. And thank you for having the compassion and courage to volunteer to be that conduit to the Council. This thread has made me realize how vital a service that really was. I appreciate you.
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2 years 10 months ago #360312 by Zero
Your welcome river, though if I’m being honest I wish I had locked this thread as read only imeadatly after posting it. My intent was never for this to be a council bash session, nor was it intended to be a way to make council explain themselves. The intent was to let council know what the lower ranking temple members needed from them. As I said in my initial post, the things I listed were not a “honey do” list for council. Council can choose to adress the issues or choose not too. No matter how it gets sliced, they are the governing body, and what they say goes. The flip side of that coin is that no leader will be successful if they are blind to the needs and concerns of those they lead.

It does my heart well to see that some small changes have come from this thread, and If nothing else comes from it, small changes are proof positive that your voices have been heard.

Master Zero
House of Orion
TOTJO Council Member
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Knighted Apprentices: Diana W, Atania, Ashria, Tannis Yarl, Tavi, Rini, Khwang

”Everything that exists in this world has a hidden meaning within. When you look deeper at things, beyond initial appearance, you discover their true reality.”


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2 years 10 months ago #360313 by Rosalyn J
We just wanna let ya'll know that we are considering all of the concerns/questions brought forward


And...we are working on them


Standby to standby

Pax Per Ministerium
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5 months 2 weeks ago #374617 by Cornilion Seadragon
While this is an old thread and many of the concerns originally raised have long been resolved and replaced with new issues as the wheel of time turns on, there is one concern which seems to still be present from what I can see (and it's worth noting that as a novice, there are things I can't see, so perhaps it is addressed elsewhere such as the Knight's chambers). This concern is that it is difficult for those wanting to contribute to the Temple to know what needs there currently are. I know for apprentices joining the IP Team is an obvious one (not sure if that's open to initiates or not), and I think I saw somewhere that there's a welcome committee or intake committee of some sort that is often filled by initiates. Beyond that the only way to know a role is needed is to spot the word "vacant" next to a role listed in the FAQs, but those are mostly just the leadership positions (ones that would be filled specifically by knights or clergy members, or at least someone who had been filling a related junior role for a while and shown they were ready to take on that leadership role regardless of rank). There are also threads within this Projects and Committees forum that list specific roles needed, but there's no upkeep on them to indicate if they are still something needed in 2023 (though I imagine it's safe to assume the sticky from 16 years ago is a bit outdated at this point). Even scrolling through the threads in this forum it's mostly just a list of projects that people wanted to start at one point or old discussions about forming committees. In short:

I can't seem to find a list of current roles needing to be filled that one can volunteer for (be it committees, assistants to heads of different "departments", or leadership roles that are either currently vacant or currently held by someone wearing many hats that would be happy to pass one of those hats off).

In many of the online communities I've seen where there is an organizational structure and volunteer roles needing to be filled, there is a thread somewhere, with the first post in that thread being regularly updated with current roles needed, who to contact to apply, and qualifications for the role. Often that thread is locked and anyone needing to get changes made to open positions within their "department" would just message the person in charge of that thread, and perhaps post additional info in a separate thread within that forum giving more details, though in some cases department heads would be invited to also post replies to that topic with additional information. There could also be specific posts following it for people at different levels (apprentice, knight, clergy) looking to find a role fitting their position within the temple as well as a post highlighting the high priority roles that really need to be filled and that people should consider first.

It seems like this could be really useful here in the Temple. It, ironically, might require adding an additional role that needs to be filled by someone to maintain it, and unfortunately that person might need to be higher up in the temple's chain of command so as to be privy to what needs there really are as well as what projects are going on, but it may also be a role that someone lower in the ranks could fill with a point of contact on the council or something who then shoots them a message saying, "Good afternoon, Can you add ____ to the current open roles? It needs to be filled by a knight, but can have assistants from any rank. Message _____ for more info or to apply. Thank you!" and then the coordinator updates the post accordingly.

It might also be good to have someone go through and clean up old stickies as I noticed (at least in the Projects and Committees forum) that a lot of them seem to be out of date (they might all be outdated in this forum, actually).

I know that for those below knight the primary role is to learn and the knights are expected to give back, but taking on some junior roles within the temple is part of that learning process (as I think some knights who require their apprentices to be part of the IP Team have already observed). Those junior roles also develop the skills and understanding of the inner workings of the temple necessary for them to later step into the leadership roles (plus it's easy to sign up as an assistant to someone, it's hard to sign up as the head of something, assistant is a lot less intimidating, and transitioning from assistant to head is a lot less daunting as well, so it might make it easier to get more volunteers if the other roles beyond just the leadership positions listed in the FAQs were easier to find and apply for). Getting involved in committees or projects, or serving as assistants/coordinators or in leadership roles is also a great way make people feel vested in the success of the temple and a part of the community, which will make them dive deeper into their Jedi studies as well (so long as their roles don't cannibalize too much of their time so they no longer have room for the studies of course).

Speaking for myself, as someone who is hopefully going to be an apprentice soon, I'm wondering what roles are needed from an apprentice, or even initiate or novice. How can I do my part for the Temple? Other than the IP Team when I become an apprentice, I'm not really sure what is needed.

Just food for thought. I'm not really looking for a reply to this so much as just sharing feedback.

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5 months 2 weeks ago #374633 by Tavi
Hello Cornilion.

Once your journal has been reviewed and you are promoted to Initiate, you can send Rini and I a message to discuss joining the IP Team.

The Welcoming team is also Rini and I as well as a couple of the other moderators. We are good on that for now. 

I am reviewing old posts on the forum right this moment and will move old or outdated ones. If you have concerns or questions, as a soon to be Initiate, i would suggest talking with the IP Crew or Mods before reaching out to Council as they are very busy and a lot of the topics you are bringing up have been discussed before. 

Knight Tavi
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5 months 2 weeks ago #374646 by Cornilion Seadragon
I wasn't so much trying to direct that to the council specifically so much as follow up on a theme already raised in this thread. My main point was asking if there is a place that lists all the current roles that the Temple is needing help in so that those wanting to help out know what to volunteer for (and who to reach out to in order to do so)? If not, then my main point is suggesting that it be useful to have that.

Maybe that would be better placed in a separate thread. I landed here because the Projects and Committees forum seemed like the place where such a list would most likely reside.

In any event, yes, I will reach to you once I become an initiate to see where I can be of service.
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