Deities

While I'm not a particular variety of pagan or have much background in it, lately I've been thinking of adding to my fiance's altar, or making one of my own, containing bits and pieces related to my own pantheon of gods I hold to. Tyr and Prometheus are two such gods.

I have two questions; what materials could I use to learn more about the gods, and what gods do you hold to?

Learning about deities and religion is an interesting thing. There are several resources available and it would all depend on what you were looking for or looking into. Personally, I would suggest going to the local library and making a day of it. Also, depending on your comfort level, speaking with a Father of one of the catholic churches would be a good place to get one particular point of view. Even though they are Christian, to be ordained they have to go through rigorous training and learn about a lot of different things.

The deities of the different religions are as varied as the religions themselves. Where many religions the “Gods” look after their people; some are just the opposite. In ancient Ireland, the deities were mischievous and caused troubles for man.

I believe in balance, unity in all things, the Force and the expression of that in all nature. I have always been fond of natural objects which draw me closer to nature and the universe as I understand it to be. But for each individual you have to come to you own understanding built on your own personal experience.

I wish you well in your endeavors and if I can help any more let me know.

Prometheus was a titan, not a god. As such, question: what qualifies a person, place or thing for your worship?

ugh, i loathe myself sometimes. wiki says that the titans 'were a primeval race of powerful deities, descendants of Gaia (Earth) and Uranus (Ouranos) (Sky), that ruled during the legendary Golden Age. They were immortal beings of incredible strength and stamina and were also the first pantheon of Greek gods and goddesses.'

however, i modify my question somewhat based on this. if the titans were overthrown by the upstart olympians, with prometheus in particular 'sentenced (by zeus) to eternal torment for his transgression' of giving fire to mankind, why not worship the obvious victor within that pantheon here, zeus, and have done?

Williamkaede wrote: I have two questions; what materials could I use to learn more about the gods, and what gods do you hold to?

Answer for question 1:

The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins
and
God is not Great by Christopher Hitchens

Answer for question 2:

I have a personal portrait of myself on my altar. You can download my image from this website, and I even have an extra frame if you need one.

My personal belief is that paganism's place today should not be as a religion, but rather, as an ideology (read the "Paganism" series on Burzum.org for clarification on this. However, there is still a very solid religious place for paganism, provided that you do not already have another religion (which I'm assuming you don't.

Which gods? My answer to you would be to look at yourself. What is your ethnicity and where did your ancestors come from? If you are Germanic, then the Norse/Germanic gods. If you are Greek, then the Greek gods, Slavic, then the Slavic gods, Celtic, then the Celtic, et cetera (forgive me that I am ignorant of gods outside of European paganism). All the European gods correspond to each other, for instance the god that originally singularly known as "Belus" is now known as Heimdall/Byelobog/Yarilo/Apollo, and so on.

Williamkaede wrote: what gods do you hold to?

I do not hold to any conventional type of gods. Do I believe that there is a god? Yes I do, but god to me is more than what the bible says or the koran says or any other religious text.

God to me is the underlying FORCE of all that is.
God to me is the source of all that is.
God to me is the fountain head of life.
God to me is the reason for consciousness.
God to me is the reason for ___fill_in_blank__.
God is the all.
God should not be but is.
God is a paradox.
God is everything that is, and everything that is not.

But to say God is only what the bible says. No I do not believe that.
Or that God is only what the Koran says. No I do not believe that either.
God is so much more that it would take volumes to just begin
to explain why there has to be a god, let alone who god is more volumes,
and then what god is even more volumes.


That is my opinion.

Hello fellow Jedi,

I hold to my God in faith. Sure it's okay to have different views on faith, it's what makes life so important. The big problem with any form of 'faith' is society itself. Society says that if we as an individual does not have some form of faith then we are a no body. I disagree! we are our own special person just because we are alive. That in itself is faith enough. Just because some stranger next to me might not believe in a god or deity doesn't make that person any less important than I myself. Another point is I do not believe in ramming my faith down anyone's throat. Why? We have inside us the gift and ability of 'free choice'. It is our choice who and what we believe in. But does this make us lesser a human?, absolutely not. It simply means they choose not to believe in something or anything and that is okay. We as humans, when we hear of some person being an atheist, and atheism is a faith of not believing; we automatically believe we have the right, because we " follow God"; to ram our faith down that persons throat believing he will change. what will happen is that atheist will become angry. The point here is this: weather we believe or not it's the individuals choice. We are to respect that choice and not interfere with it. In doing so we earn that person(s) respect.

may the Force be with you all.

Having had a pagan influence growing up I've always had an awareness of the idea of multiple deities, though never made the worship of any (including the Christian God) a part of my spiritual practise, and regardless of their religious origin, I tend to think of them less as "gods" than I do as a combination of either spiritually active people whos lives were spun out of proportion by years of retelling the stories, or simply a percieved personification of different aspects of the "divine" or any other unexplainable experience. Simply put I dont believe there are deities or gods that in "reality" are as the mythology depicts them.

Though, that said, I do have a certain respect for the mythologies of Morrighan and Achtland, the Goddess' my great grandmother revered.

I believe that there is a divine essence to everything, in every person, in all places and at all times. I refer to this essence as the Force. I do not hold to the concept of a 'divine singular'. I see the awesome complexity of the world around me through human eyes, understanding an infinitesimal amount of the true complexity of it. Right now, I don't feel that I am, or anyone else is, meant to know the whole truth behind everything. I understand that which I need to know, looking a step at a time into the vastness of whole truth. I don't often look for more than that, and maybe I should.

As a Jedi I believe in the Force, which is as close to divinity as I understand it. I pray to the Force from time to time, though it could be said that "May the Force Be With You" is an invocation or prayer as well. The Force is a comfort to me, knowing that there is always something close when things are at their darkest.

I tend to think the experience of things like Gods are just the brain contextualizing some high order mental event in terms it understands. Whether that is caused by some supernatural energy or not is not up for me to say. It's easiest for me to classify it as being based in the Force.

So for me, worshiping God's is a type of Deity Yoga (which is about visualization and embodiment to transform oneself into that thing) and also creating a context for Dream Yoga to fulfill. I guess Jedi Deity Yoga would be trying to experience becoming some the ideal Jedi, at least temporarily but perhaps if done enough it has more grounding for effect. To me it's the same thing meant by Christians with concepts of 'following' Jesus. Then things like myth's can become vehicles for those same things, giving them complexity which can be translated across to real living individuals in their life.

Gods are interesting concepts, I've been brought up in a heavy christian enviroment, didn't fit me so I left and explored other religions.

With paganism, they hold a deity for different aspects of existance so I would suggest, finding gods according to your priorities or something.

scott777ab wrote:

Williamkaede wrote: what gods do you hold to?

I do not hold to any conventional type of gods. Do I believe that there is a god? Yes I do, but god to me is more than what the bible says or the koran says or any other religious text.

God to me is the underlying FORCE of all that is.
God to me is the source of all that is.
God to me is the fountain head of life.
God to me is the reason for consciousness.
God to me is the reason for ___fill_in_blank__.
God is the all.
God should not be but is.
God is a paradox.
God is everything that is, and everything that is not.

But to say God is only what the bible says. No I do not believe that.
Or that God is only what the Koran says. No I do not believe that either.
God is so much more that it would take volumes to just begin
to explain why there has to be a god, let alone who god is more volumes,
and then what god is even more volumes.


That is my opinion.

Have you ever heard the good word of Galdrux?

the book im currently reading presents an interesting hypothesis for the rise of deities in human culture:
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind

'Jaynes asserts that consciousness did not arise far back in human evolution but is a learned process based on metaphorical language. Prior to the development of consciousness, Jaynes argues humans operated under a previous mentality he called the bicameral ('two-chambered') mind. In the place of an internal dialogue, bicameral people experienced auditory hallucinations directing their actions, similar to the command hallucinations experienced by people with schizophrenia today. These hallucinations were interpreted as the voices of chiefs, rulers, or the gods.'

so far, its fascinating. i never thought to question how we dreamed up gods, or when. dr jaynes assertions make sense, though seem to be fairly untestable as its so far back in human history.

Williamkaede wrote: I have two questions; what materials could I use to learn more about the gods, and what gods do you hold to?

For gods with established followings, you could look to the literature surrounding them--scriptures, plays, fictionalizations, etc. For example, IIRC, there is a great deal about the Greek gods in Homer's Odyssey, and the Eddas give us much information about the Norse tribes of gods.

Written source material or long-running worshippers are the best place to get information. You can learn from hearsay, but I've noticed a widespread trend among newbie neopagans and new-agers to parrot what they've heard about the gods, rather than what the source material says about the gods. This poses a problem to me (as a religious scholar) because it has the potential to completely alter the personality and nature of the deity in question. Search Google for seven websites describing Odin or Thoth and you're likely to get seventeen different characters, whereas there is a wealth of information "confirming" the identities and personality traits of Christ, Buddha, and Ganesh, (because they have had continuous worship for centuries), and of Zeus, Apollo, and Mars (because the wealth of information on them in written forms is useful for keeping commentaries in line with what's shown.)

This isn't to say that you can't find numerous other sources, but as a researcher and an academic, I vastly prefer to get as close to the original source as possible when trying to describe anything.

As for the gods I hold to, I "believe in" (recognize) a great number, split into many categories, and worship only one, the God of Abraham through the personality of the Christ.

In my mind, and according to my experience, the spiritual world is divided like so:

• The Prime Creator (howsoever you should like to call It)
• The Divine Spark (that which is referred to as pneuma, chi, anima, The Force, etc.; the Divine within each of us)
  
• Attendants of the Prime Creator (what Christianity calls angels and demons, or the Valar, if you're a Tolkien fan)
  
• Ascendants (those that, through whatever means, gained 'deity' not inherent)
  • Ascendant Ideas
    • concepts (Sophia, Goddess of Wisdom; the statue of blind Justice; Caïssa, Goddess of Chess; Uncle Sam)
    • personality traits or realms of influence (Zeus was known for both his command of storms and his rampaging lust, Neptune for his great rage and command of the sea)
    • fictional personalities and deities which have, or may gain non-fictional worshipers (Pelor, Greyhawk sun deity; Elune, Night Elf goddess of the moon)
  • Ascendant Individuals - the Buddha and the enlightened who follow his path, Heracles, and the Norse pantheons (who, I believe, have shown evidence of being tribal chieftains and warriors)
• Spirits - I perceive the spirit world in a fashion somewhere between the understanding of a shaman, an adherent of Shinto, and Werewolf: the Apocalypse (which did a great job of showing types and hierarchies). I don't know how else to explain this section other than an intersection of those three systems.

YMMV, of course, but that's what I've experienced.

:laugh: I actually addressed that theory at the gathering Desolous!!!!

William: I would add something which represents fire to your altar, as it covers both Tyr and Prometheous. Since I tend to be more stone oriented in that regard (safer) I'd suggest obsidian.

yes, its telling that the only creatures on the planet who worship gods are also the only ones that are fully conscious and sentient, as far as we can tell. the two are almost certainly correlated,and jaynes' theory puts forth how.

Desolous wrote: ugh, i loathe myself sometimes. wiki says that the titans 'were a primeval race of powerful deities, descendants of Gaia (Earth) and Uranus (Ouranos) (Sky), that ruled during the legendary Golden Age. They were immortal beings of incredible strength and stamina and were also the first pantheon of Greek gods and goddesses.'

however, i modify my question somewhat based on this. if the titans were overthrown by the upstart olympians, with prometheus in particular 'sentenced (by zeus) to eternal torment for his transgression' of giving fire to mankind, why not worship the obvious victor within that pantheon here, zeus, and have done?

Although you do have a good point, according to Greek mythology, Prometheus created mankind and stole fire for mankind, even though he knew the likely consequences. I say a love for your creation such as that is admirable. Foolish, but admirable. Also, the Olympians are usurpers and tyrants in my view. The minor olympians I worship are not there for any trivial reason, as I believe the Olympians are unfit to watch over mankind.
I am a wiccan who focuses on six gods and goddesses, and depending on the time of the year, two gods are more prevalent than others. I focus on Hecate (queen of witches) and Thanatos (god of death) for the first part of the year, Selene the huntress and Morpheus the god of dreams for the second time of the year, and Gaia and Prometheus for the final part of the year. The reason I do this is because I focus on the time of the year as a metaphor for the gods' timeline. Just thought I'd put in my two cents Also, the rest of the titans hold a special place in my practices, but these six are the ones I focus on the most.

It's not the gods that make the difference but the strength and depth of the belief that impacts our lives, those around us and all living energies. Ya gotta believe and have faith if you want the power.

William Kaede wrote: Well, I'm not sure of any resources specific to those two deities, but theoi.com is a good one for Greek Gods and Titans. There are also many online Asatru and Hellenic groups you could ask for firsthand information in a modern context if you were interested.

As for me, I am a Hellenic reconstructionist and therefore worship the Olympians and various minor/local deities.

Leon wrote: Also, the Olympians are usurpers and tyrants in my view. The minor olympians I worship are not there for any trivial reason, as I believe the Olympians are unfit to watch over mankind.

Yes, the Olympians usurped their positions. However, they usurped said positions from a Titan who:
a) Usurped his own father by castrating him.
b) Ate his own children as they were born.
c) Was a terrible tyrant.

If they are tyrants they sure look a lot nicer than the Titans that came before. Also, some Titans were eventually given clemency. Kronos was even appointed as the guardian of the Isles of the Blessed. Another important thing I personally like to keep in mind is that myths are not meant to be taken literally. Alot of them are meant for teaching lessons.

In any case, I worship some of the Titans as well as the Olympians. *shrug*