God and the Devil

God and the Devil are a magnet. United as one, polar opposites, attract diffferently and one would not exist without the other.

Hmm, I guess it depends what you mean by either God or the Devil or magnet...
Now, I could of course just walk away after thanking you for sharing your perspective, but after considering it I find myself lacking the necessary gratitude. This hardly tells us anything about you because we have no idea what impact this perspective has on anything else about you. Since we do not know how you came to the view you just shared, we literally don't know where this is coming from or indeed where else this can be going, i.e. what further use it is.
I understand that you didn't mean to say that this is how things are or that you unlike any of the rest of us have means to know these things but are really only sharing your thoughts. And yet, here they are and what are we to do with them? Whether I grant you that what you say about gods and devils or the validity of your comparison or not, at the end of it the question remains the same: "So what?...:dry:"

Oh, and by the way, magnetic poles aren't discrete locations - which is why they don't exist apart from each other - nor do they attract differently (what ever that means). That is because magnetic fields have no start or end point. Their divergence is zero, that's what we call Gauss's Law for magnetism. You're welcome.

It's purposively a vague statement to stimulate discussion and opinion. I look at discussion as a trip not a destination.

Knowing me, impact, where is it coming from, where is it going, what to do with it, so what, etc? WOW, to complex, can't respond to all that at once. Pick one question at a time and I'll do my best with it.

I really wasn't intending to explore the magnet scientifically as much as a metaphor or symbolic of something else, especially something abstract. God and the devil personified good and evil? Different but the same? The Ying Yang thing?

heres one potential way to speak about it

using very simplistic language, there are GOOD WAYS to live, and there are BAD ways to live

i dont know what other standard one might wish to adopt, but i would say that EXISTING and being ALIVE are about as good a standard or context for determining what is GOOD and what is BAD as any other, (and better than most) and within ALIVE, we also have HUMAN, and by these standards, and within this context, we can confidently say (for example) that being healthy is BETTER than being sick, being courageous is better than being cowardly, being loved and loving is better than being despised and bitter, ect

one aspect of "God" is to represent the individual's or the culture's collection of understandings which move a person and society towards "BETTER" ways of living and being

or you could say that "God" is whatever that/those force/s of the universe is/are which produce/s "positive" consequences as a result of "positive" actions

from this, the opposite can be understood as "The Devil"

There are absolutely BAD and WRONG ways to live, and to see and interact with the world

"The Devil" is whatever external forces, or internal personality characteristics within an individual, or within a society, that encourage, promote and result in, alignment with these WRONG WAYS

the "wages of sin is death" or the results of living the wrong way are that one is less healthy and less efficient than one s capable of being, over a broad range of criteria, especially in the psychological and psycho-social realms

Rickie wrote: God and the Devil are a magnet. United as one, polar opposites, attract diffferently and one would not exist without the other.

God did exist without the devil originally... the creation of the devil was due to an oversight by God.. (if we're talking Christian myth here). (From my viewing of it.)

God did exist without the devil originally..

One sect opinion. Not saying it's wrong but who knows. No one me thinks.

I'm thinking god/devil is a human effort to define good and bad rather than, in my opinion, they are one and the same representing yin and yang. We as humans, at least in the west, are obsessed with defining more rather than experiencing and accepting. God and the devil are one just as I/we am, having negative and positive poles. It's all me just different aspect of me.

Edan wrote: God did exist without the devil originally... the creation of the devil was due to an oversight by God.. (if we're talking Christian myth here). (From my viewing of it.)

Well, Christianity teaches that they're separate and that the devil's ambition outgrew his sense.

Prior to that, if we look at the Book of Job (one of the oldest extant texts, if memory serves, and linguistically unique from the rest of the Old Testament), we see something different. Satan is as his name implies, just God's District Attorney. Nothing more.

haha I love this topic because everyone can relate to it through their prior experiences with religion. god=good, devil=bad. So now I can tell you all what is good and what is bad:
Good:
1. Sex with animals - god said so
2. Killing people - god said so
Bad:
1. Sharing - Satan loves this
2. Love - Satan likes this

I LOVE the magnet analogy. A piece of something trapped in some mystery, torn between freedom and 'alignment'. In this regard I'd view God as representing freedom, and the devil as being enslaved to banal (read subconscious) drivers. Of course it could be flipped and viewed the other way from other points of view, which is why I find it a good one, thanks!!
:lol:

Whyte Horse wrote: haha I love this topic because everyone can relate to it through their prior experiences with religion.

Yea, that must be exactly my problem here. I just don't have any such experience so all I read is a few thoughts and all I have to add amounts to "Hang on, that's not how magnets work...!"

god=good, devil=bad.

Now... I don't know how it is with other religions, but the holy texts I read never actually showed us this. Superman is good because he helps people in need first and asks questions later, if at all. The Joker is evil because all he seeks is havoc and destruction for pretty much nothing but his own amusement. There is no big introduction that tells us that Superman is the pinnacle of goodness or that the Joker is pure materialized evil. Instead of being told this we are being shown it through their dialogue and actions. Theology aside, the text itself really only declares who is the good one and who is the bad one and the examples you give right after what I quoted demonstrate that the rest of the text tells quite a different story indeed...

Whyte Horse wrote: haha I love this topic because everyone can relate to it through their prior experiences with religion. god=good, devil=bad. So now I can tell you all what is good and what is bad:
Good:
1. Sex with animals - god said so
2. Killing people - god said so
Bad:
1. Sharing - Satan loves this
2. Love - Satan likes this

People said god said so. People said satin likes this. Some people believe they were inspired by god/satan. I think their are attempts to undestand and explain stuff.

that's not how magnets work.

?

that's not how magnets work.

?

!

Gisteron wrote:

that's not how magnets work.

?

!

I still don't understand what you mean?

Rickie wrote: God and the Devil are a magnet. United as one, polar opposites, attract diffferently and one would not exist without the other.

I am going to do something here...
Just for fun.
I was raised by a Mormon and a Catholic who allowed me to pick my own path.
So I've decided to approach this from a Mormon viewpoint just for fun and, possibly, educational purposes. These are not my own beliefs and I am not Mormon myself. I won't bash the religion in any way, either, I'm simply going to state a view from that standpoint. I hope this makes sense and can be fun...

God and the Devil aren't opposites as Lucifer is God's actual son just as Jesus is God's actual son.
Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.
I mean this in a way that they are actually brothers and God is their father, just how families are here on Earth.
In that regard, Jesus and God are not the same person, they are only one in the sense that their purpose is the same.
Lucifer, however, was cast into "Hell" after he came up with an idea to get us back to God (spiritually and physically). His idea was that instead of having free agency and the ability to choose good or bad, we would simply not have a choice and would always do good.
Edit: I forgot to add that since Lucifer came up with this idea he wanted all the glory to be given to himself and not to God - which is what made God mad enough to cast him out.

So, according to all of that, Lucifer isn't a necessity except to give us someone to tempt us and lead us astray. Not that we don't do good enough a job of that on our own, of course. He's just there for extra support in doing all the bad things and making us feel awful about it when we do. Mormon theology also teaches that this is the way it's been done before and will continue to be done forever. As in - the world God lived on when he was mortal also had a Satan-type and his god before that, etc.

Phew.
I hope no one has any questions about any of this. haha

I'm not sure if I believe in a god or devil anymore. My belief lines up more with Buddhism. I believe in the big bounce theory, a cycle of life eternal. I believe our energies never die and return to the force for rebirth, in this universe or the next. I believe good and evil have consequences, in this life or the next. I don't think any cosmic forces or divine forces try to win our devotion. I think our consequences derive from or cohesion, or lack of, with our world. The more conflict you cause with it, the more negative feedback you receive.

JLSpinner wrote: I'm not sure if I believe in a god or devil anymore. My belief lines up more with Buddhism. I believe in the big bounce theory, a cycle of life eternal. I believe our energies never die and return to the force for rebirth, in this universe or the next. I believe good and evil have consequences, in this life or the next. I don't think any cosmic forces or divine forces try to win our devotion. I think our consequences derive from or cohesion, or lack of, with our world. The more conflict you cause with it, the more negative feedback you receive.

Yup. Exactly. Buddhism has a great many wisdoms that we can all benefit from. I lived in a Theravada Buddhist society for 4 yrs. It was enlightening, to say the least. Here's a photo from the bloodless revolution that overthrew the gov't there:

Without trying to defend western faiths, it is still hard to argue that Buddhism is in many ways superior. It of course, like any other, makes grand assertions about the nature of things without any shred of evidence, so it is by no means better at that, yet it is also little more sophisticated in its morality and in my opinion indeed less moral overall, incredible though that may sound... I could explain why, but that would get us even more off-topic, so I shan't until prompted.

Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.

Oh HELL no. Jesus was God's "only begotten son". Lucifer was an angel (one among many) who wanted to take over. If Lucifer was God's son, then so were all the other angels.[/quote]

Again, according to LDS theology, "only begotten" means that he was the only son born in flesh.
And yes, all the angles are Gods children, including you and I. We are the "spirit" brothers and sisters of Jesus, Lucifer, and each and every person who has ever or will ever live.
That is why they refer to one another as "brother" and "sister" at their church services.

Streen wrote:

steamboat28 wrote: Prior to that, if we look at the Book of Job ... Satan is as his name implies, just God's District Attorney. Nothing more.

If that's what you think, you missed the point of the book of Job.

In the book, Job was very pious, worshiped God with his entire being. Satan wanted to prove that if he took away everything he had, that Job would stop worshiping God. God GAVE SATAN PERMISSION to ruin Job's life. Fortunately, Job proved Satan wrong and Job continued to worship God even after his family was killed and his possessions lost. So you see, God USES Satan.

Seems an awful lot like god USED Job, taking away everything that could ever mean anything to him just to prove a point to a subordinate. Which was a jerktastic thing to do to someone who loves you. Like making Abraham go through that whole thing where he was forcing him to kill Isaac to prove he loved him. Can we even say how craptacular and sadistic that was? I would NEVER do that to someone who loved me. Don't even get me started on making women marry men who raped them, stoning disobedient children... his armies being told of their opponents, to "kill all of men, women, children and animals", but the virgins were free to have as a "prize" and be "used later"...

If that god is "all there is" as you say, I'd rather not.

God and Satan are not polar opposites. God is all there is. Satan was just one of God's creations. An angel, who fell, and roams existence causing trouble. He is not omnipresent, omnipotent, or omniscient. But God is.

And yet, I still like Lucifer better. I'd have rebelled against the idea of some dumb humans being loved more than me and given all of the attention too, especially when the only thing I was ever made to do was love god, obey and humbly serve him FOREVER, and the stupid humans don't even pay attention to god (even after he'd given them EVERYTHING THEY COULD EVER NEED OR WANT) most of the time with their "free will". The angels were true to life companions to god. We are like hamsters sleeping in our own bed of pee soaked shredded paper, looking at the finger instead of what it's pointing at.

So yeah, if I were Lucifer I'd be pissed off too.