Immigration debate

well being an immagrint and also not reading everyones post on this topic, i feel that if they need to move over here why not. my country is more expensive and class oriantated. this was a better move on my parents part more oppertunity to live a better life here. just my thoughts

DAN wrote:

well being an immagrint and also not reading everyones post on this topic, i feel that if they need to move over here why not. my country is more expensive and class oriantated. this was a better move on my parents part more oppertunity to live a better life here. just my thoughts

But you came here legally.

Twsoundsoff wrote:

DAN wrote:

well being an immagrint and also not reading everyones post on this topic, i feel that if they need to move over here why not. my country is more expensive and class oriantated. this was a better move on my parents part more oppertunity to live a better life here. just my thoughts

But you came here legally.

Also it has to be remembered that for certain countries it is near to impossible to gain entry and for other easier. Another encourager of people being more innovative.

I too understand the good and bad sides of immigration, but there is one thing that has not yet been touched up on here, let me tell you a story. Across the Atlantic there is a country called England. And in this country there are many immigrants. Most of these immigrants are here legally because of the EU. Now every 60 seconds on average 1 immigrant will legally enter this brilliant country. But this country has a problem. They have something called the NHS which is a nationwide free health service (WOO!). Now these legal immigrants which have no free health service are free to come to England and use the health service there. Do they pay for it, no of course not it is free. This means that the NHS is overrun by an excess amount of people requiring aid. Also because immigrants can easily come here for free it means they can also just turn up to schools and spend a year at any school they want. And because of this the schools have a ratio of 1:4 English to foreigners in the class. And it has been said that 1 third of immigrants can't speak fluent English! So not only are they abusing our health service and schools, but they also can't speak English fluently.

This is immigration at it's worst in my opinion. And because of this I feel that we should come out of the EU and put a hold on immigration. Now i am not saying that immigration is a bad thing, but it is getting over the top over here! some places have no 'original' English people in them.

Please don't think I dislike immigrants, but I am showing that immigration can very easily get out of hand for some first world countries. Which is why there need to be a lot more stricter controls on how people can enter and leave the country.

Akkarin wrote:

I too understand the good and bad sides of immigration, but there is one thing that has not yet been touched up on here, let me tell you a story. Across the Atlantic there is a country called England. And in this country there are many immigrants. Most of these immigrants are here legally because of the EU. Now every 60 seconds on average 1 immigrant will legally enter this brilliant country. But this country has a problem. They have something called the NHS which is a nationwide free health service (WOO!). Now these legal immigrants which have no free health service are free to come to England and use the health service there. Do they pay for it, no of course not it is free. This means that the NHS is overrun by an excess amount of people requiring aid. Also because immigrants can easily come here for free it means they can also just turn up to schools and spend a year at any school they want. And because of this the schools have a ratio of 1:4 English to foreigners in the class. And it has been said that 1 third of immigrants can't speak fluent English! So not only are they abusing our health service and schools, but they also can't speak English fluently.

This is immigration at it's worst in my opinion. And because of this I feel that we should come out of the EU and put a hold on immigration. Now i am not saying that immigration is a bad thing, but it is getting over the top over here! some places have no 'original' English people in them.

Please don't think I dislike immigrants, but I am showing that immigration can very easily get out of hand for some first world countries. Which is why there need to be a lot more stricter controls on how people can enter and leave the country.

Argentina also has a 100% free medical system, which is used by many non Argentinians (including myself). I was lucky that my daughter could be treated with her condition.

That's very good news Jon! i hope she is feeling much better. But that is what i am talking about. Because all countries do not have a free health service they use others that are free, and that puts pressure on them. Personally i would like to see everyone receive a free health service if they are unwell but the countries with a free health service are being abused and that may eventually force them to stop having a free health service. There can be no differences either eventually we all have a free health service or eventually we all pay for our health. These issue principles have been discussed many times, everyone is required to work together to help everyone else.

OK, perhaps I can offer some perspective from the *other* side of the coin. BEFORE anyone tears me a new one...these are NOT my opinions, they are scientifically and historically proven FACTS! So, don't get mad at me for stating the truth...

I live in Oregon, where \"migrant workers\" have done several things. Please allow me to illustrate. Perhaps this will let you know how MOST of these wonderful people feel about YOU...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBONmdeRvpM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al5Fwmowc8k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lb3oFzCj_0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De1u2GTBYKo



1. They have contributed a HUGE influx of drugs, mostly meth and heroine, so that they can start their \"better lives\". They pack these drugs up here, sell them off, or deliver to cartel, and thus, have their piece of the American Dream. God Bless the USA.

2. They have DRIVEN wages down by working for less than the prescribed minimum wage, and hiding from the taxes and such that we all get to pay.

3. They have created security risks by creating false names and such, making it near impossible to know who they REALLY are. And we WONDER why our government is paranoid. IMAGINE if these people were ARABS...how would we treat them, then? As Terrorists? I ask you, what's the DIFFERENCE??

4. They have DESTROYED this state's welfare and health systems by occupying virtually ALL of the funds allocated to them, never having PAYED INTO that system.

5. They occupy a MAJOR percentage of our jail spaces because they WILL NOT identify themselves, and would rather get \"three hots and a cot\" in jail, rather than work.

6. They have set up ILLEGAL encampments where they have drug/prostitution/crime rings that they generate revenue with to fund MORE of their buddies to come up here and live the Dream.

7. They believe that MOST of the South Western US belongs to them, and in FACT that the MASSES of illegals are coming here as a strategic movement to destroy our economy with the afforementioned actions, destroy our youth with drugs and gangs, and basically destroy our country by allying with the forces that would see us harmed.

Now...as I said. These are NOT my opinions. They are PROVEN FACTS. look at the videos...watch some other ones, call some of your reps, ASK, LEARN...and THEN comment! This has NOTHING to do with me! Now, my wife and I WERE victims of theft and vandalism by \"Juan Miguel Herrera\" and \"Ricardo Anguiano\"...the two pieces of *humanity* that broke into our car, STOLE my wife's purse and checkbook and were DUMB enough to try and cash a check at an ATM Deposit. It TOOK THEIR LITTLE PHOTOS..

Police reply: They are illegals, we don't even know who they are, much less WHERE...and it's outside our limitations...it's an INS matter...

Our reward for working and paying taxes: Identity theft, overdraft in our back account, a $350 check that we had to get covered to avoid finance charges, and a wonderful feeling of having been violated....

That's OK. The Gauge and the .45 are ready now. It won't be happening again. So, I guess I can say that I have no tears for people who BREAK OUR LAWS, STEAL from us, SNEAK into our country like cockroaches, bring DRUGS, CRIME, etc...

Well...that's enough...check it out for yourself...

Here is also an interesting part of the TRUTH which might be of interest...

Washington Historic Decisions Impacting Latin America -USA Has Huge Debt
by Victor Pinzon
Washington may have done some things right for Latin America but history evidences a pattern of Washington’s wrong policies, which have contributed to negatively and destructively impact Latin America.

Washington’s Latin American policy historical to date and for the future is not only wrong but also a seed of despair for over 70% of Latin American’s population allowing or helping corrupt, oppressive governments ruled as feudal lords breeding despair, lack of hope –not only potential grounds for violence and terrorism, but the substantial loss of great opportunities.

History demonstrates that Latin America has been, is and will be critically important to the future stability, security and growth of the USA among other by supplying cheap raw materials, cheap immigrant labor, provide huge profits to Corporate America.

Additionally, historically since the Civil War, Latin America has supported Washington’s policy time and again in the international battles, Wars and affairs, except in President Bush’s War on Iraq. Yet, Washington has not properly corresponded or compensated the people of Latin America for their invaluable support and loyalty.

USA has a moral right, not just for its own, selfish continued future survival and economic growth to assist in different ways to make Latin America strong not weak, united not divided.

USA needs of Latin America’s large population, USA needs Latin America’s great potential markets, needs its vast and varied raw materials, human resources, the continued ongoing supply of labor to its own domestic economic production.

We must remember that the population of the USA is only 4% of the total world’s population.

Can you imagine how devastating it could be for the USA were most of or a sufficient number of countries around the world to start acting against the USA even in a nonviolent way, such as boycotting buying products or services of USA origin or with significant USA’s content?

Accordingly, I suggest that the USA must assist Latin America at leas in the following areas:

To develop strong, honest, compassionate, fair, just, democracies
To re-engineer its government institutions
To strengthen its rule of law
To strengthen their economies
To strengthen their education system
To strengthen their social fiber
To become a vibrant region of democracies, a region of just, equal opportunities where freedom, liberty and
the pursuit of happiness will not just be a dream but a reality
To develop and effective and strong Union of Latin American countries, much like the European Union and
the USA itself, thereby developing a strong Hemispheric of the Americas Union.

USA has a moral right, a moral and economic debt to most of Latin America

The following is a list of some of the negative and devastating, unfair, unjust, illegal policies of Washington against Latin America:

During the 19th Century Washington

Plan and ordered the illegal invasion of Mexico during the 1840’s

Under the gun forced in 1848 Mexico to sign the Guadalupe Hidalgo Treaty where the USA took, some say stole from Mexico: California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas without paying a compensation

Plan and ordered in 1898 through an apparent covert (deceptive) operation to have our own Maine battleship sank in Havana Harbor while public ally blaming Spain to take over Cuba, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, the Philippines, etc. without paying a compensation to these countries

Plan and ordered in 1903 through another brilliantly executed covert (deceptive) operation the take over, some say stole, of Panama province from Colombia without paying compensation

During the 20th Century Washington

Plan and ordered time and again invasions of numerous Latin American and Caribbean countries

Selected individuals to become corrupt, oppressive dictators causing irreparable harm, which still their rule is being felt in many ways, such as:

Trujillo in Dominican Republic
Somoza in Nicaragua
Duvalier in Haiti
Noriega in Panama

In a different but still destructive way the support for|
Batista in Cuba in the 50’s
Guatemala in the 50’s
Dominican Republic invasion in 1965
Grenada invasion in the 80’s

The assassination of Allende in Chile, spearheaded by ITT with CIA participation, bringing thousands of Chilean murdered under Pinochet and horrible other violations of law

The horrible, wasteful dirty wars of the 80’s and 90’s in El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras

The not only allowing but supporting Britain, flagrantly violating the Rio Treaty as a signatory, to military attack Argentina’s Malvina Islands

Since the 70’s Colombia has been devastated through the greed of its people, awaken and energized by Washington’s policy unable and unwilling to stop the illegal consumption of illegal drugs. Additionally, Washington’s policy of fumigating illegal growing coca, marihuana and amapola fields with highly suspect chemicals are causing irreparable harm to the delicate environment of the tropics and the health of thousands of people.

Some say that Washington has been historically very clever in dealing with Latin America. In order to protect its improper, unfair, destructive control of Latin America and the Caribbean, Washington has for more than the last 150 years devised policies to keep its Southern neighbors divided, into feudal republics, which makes it easier to maintain its control with clever policies, such as the Rio Treaty. Such Treaty prevents foreign European and any other foreign countries from invading or military attack any of the Latin American or Caribbean countries. Yet, history evidences that Washington can and will ignore its sacred commitments when it so desires, leaving Latin America to its own defense when Washington so desires.

Washington through its well thought out dealings individually with each President of Latin America countries, coalesces, intimidates, buys and orders their compliance and submission; some say much like a prostitute –maintaining alive the label of Banana Republics

We can do much better and we must do much better for Latin America as our own future depends upon what we do for Latin America.

We must question anything and every policy or decision of our elected officials.

After all, in our great USA country, each and all our elected officials are our Public Servants; starting with the President of the United States -our number One Public Servant.

The President is not our master, nor our King, nor is he above the law but our public servant!


Latin America USA NAFTA & FTAA
USA labor unions and Kucinich are against NAFTA & FTAA because they say USA jobs are lost to Mexico and Latin America low wages paid to workers

USA labor unions and Kucinich are not totally correct.

China is the country at 28cents per day, possibly the lowest wages paid to workers, certainly lower than any Latin American country. Additionally, the number of jobs newly created in China during the last 10 years to produce the $billions of dollars imported goods by the USA is certainly much higher than those created in Latin America during the same period of time.

What is Kucinich and others like him view or vision for Latin America? Particularly when the facts evidence the historic support and supply of vast amount and great variety of cheap and critical raw materials, including excellent and cheap migrant labor Latin America has and might continue supplying to the United States more so than any other developing country?

Would Kucinich, USA labor unions and others continue the one sided policy?

Oh yeah...while you're at it...

Look up \"Aztlan\", and see how these poor people feel about US.

Here's a few MORE facts:

1. Mexico is NOT POOR....they have some of the most profitable tourism in the WORLD, yet their OWN GOVERNMENT makes them what they are.

2. They have offered to allow our adversaries to use their country as a STAGING GROUND FOR INVASION if the \"price was right\"...

Just some more food for thought...while we are feeling bad for these noble people that want nothing more than to live in America...

How come no one feels this sorry for people in other countries that spend YEARS writing letters, applying, and doing it ALL...BY THE RULES...

Nope. We feel bad for the ones that circumvent us at every given time. Odd, ain't it?

KeyanFlamecloud wrote:

Oh yeah...while you're at it...

Look up \"Aztlan\", and see how these poor people feel about US.

Here's a few MORE facts:

1. Mexico is NOT POOR....they have some of the most profitable tourism in the WORLD, yet their OWN GOVERNMENT makes them what they are.

2. They have offered to allow our adversaries to use their country as a STAGING GROUND FOR INVASION if the \"price was right\"...

Just some more food for thought...while we are feeling bad for these noble people that want nothing more than to live in America...

How come no one feels this sorry for people in other countries that spend YEARS writing letters, applying, and doing it ALL...BY THE RULES...

Nope. We feel bad for the ones that circumvent us at every given time. Odd, ain't it?

Based on what has happened many countries (USA, Great Britain, France, Italy, Germany, Spain... ) cannot be surprised about the level of immigration.