Modern Coming of Age rites & becoming a man/woman

I've been going over Joseph Campbell's interviews with Bill Moyers, and he talks about the purpose of coming of age rites/ceremonies (to transition into/make one capable of living life as an adult), and how CoA ceremonies have been done in ancient & tribal cultures (separation from the mother and childhood life, physical and emotional suffering/hardship, reintroduction into society as an adult with specific adult roles.)

He also talks about how modern day coming of age ceremonies are useless- purely symbolic, they don't do anything to bring about this coming of age. It's like "no matter what kind of mental state you're in, once you hit 13/15/16/18 etc you're a man/woman." It also got me thinking- what is a man/woman, and how do we determine that? Yes, the law is one way to determine who/what a man or woman is (but again that is based on age), but the privileges and responsibilities are given irrespective of the person's mental state. Does mental state matter in regards to who is considered a man/woman, in society (not law, but in the mind of the populace?)

I found Campbell's thoughts thought-provoking, and I also began to wonder about the law vs society's idea of an adult, how one becomes an adult in modern day society, necessity/redundancy of ritual, etc. It also made me wonder what other people thought about the subject. I'd like your personal thoughts:

What do you consider the criteria that makes someone a man/woman? Why? Are the criteria different for each sex?

Are there any methods that can be used to accelerate the process (if the criteria is something that can be given i.e experience, rather than age), and if you had a child, would you let adulthood come "naturally" or would you try to "control" the process?

Should we have a modern day coming of age rite/ceremony? Or are coming of age ceremonies irrelevant to life in modern society? Why or why not?


I'll put my personal thoughts down here- I don't want to influence your ideas with my thoughts, so I'd prefer you type up your response to my questions before reading this. But it's your choice

I've typed a lot but I don't know if I've said anything :dry:

Hypatia wrote: What do you consider the criteria that makes someone a man/woman? Why? Are the criteria different for each sex?

I think we do need to distinguish between child and adult yes, and that difference is one is newly born and growing, while the other has reached a relative plateau of growth and had the opportunity to become accustomed to human behaviour and the practical and legal requirements to participate in society. Biologically though perhaps it is in three stages, infant (rapid foundation growth), child (stabilized rate to prepare for puberty), teenager (puberty rapid growth to adult).

People at any age above about 8 can act like an adult, so there is an argument there, but I always an drawn to what might be the best for the most, and for me it probably is best to have supportive structure while the brain and body develop past the period of rapid growth. Puberty is the big burst which probably best defines that. It changes the entire hormonal landscape within your body and this changes the way an individual feels, thinks and act. The human brain continues to develop and grow through and after puberty and the growth of the brain is influenced by this change in hormones. So it makes sense from that perpective that adulthood should really begin a couple of year after puberty.

So perhaps the use of an arbitary age is practical for legal reasons, but yes I know most every 14 year old thinks they are an adult in a kids body - but of course its a 14 year old brain thinking it knows what an adult really is. Society today seems to be weak on this point, as adult societies in the west really value the right of the individual to have a say, and we tend to shy away from stopping and thinking about how important it is to understand any opinion is only as applicable as the scope of information used to make that decision for fear of making the person feel like their opinion isnt allowed, it is, and I think teenagers pick up on this and it plays a large role in their personal struggle to define themselves during the drastic changes occuring during puberty.

The idealised concept of parent then is a guardian of the child until adulthood but also the facilitator of preparing them for living in the society. The problem is everyone is an individual with different rates of growth and different experiences and support. Some people need to live as adults when they are still teenagers, and in some countries in the 3rd world when they are still children. I do not think the issue is can children be adults, becuase yes they can, but for more children to become better adults, it probably is best to have supportive structure while the brain and body develop.

I'm a guy so do not know about girls, and my sister was older, so I didn't notice her journey through puberty. I know both guys and girls can have children at the onset of puberty, but having children is a much greater feat then getting someone pregnant, so perhaps girls achieve more growth in the initial stages of puberty with the boys being more spread out throughout the range.... explains the varied height differences of boys and girls between 8->18 years old.

Hypatia wrote: Are there any methods that can be used to accelerate the process (if the criteria is something that can be given i.e experience, rather than age), and if you had a child, would you let adulthood come "naturally" or would you try to "control" the process?

As indicated I think it ideally would be recognized that brain development is integral to brain function and therefore someones capacity to actually operate at an adult level..... even though they think they feel like an adult much earlier. Even now I still think I feel much the same as I did when I was 14, but since it seems to be proven that sex hormones change the structures in the brain I guess its safe to say that the influx of sex hormones during puberty might change the brain. In this regard then I would not interfere with the hormones of a child to hasten development and I do not think it would even work. I'd rather take an approach of maximizing life experience and learning capabilities during a childhood then expecting someone to become an adult before they really are one. This though assumes the ability to financially provide that.... and for poor people who do not have this luxury then they have to do what that have to do.

Hypatia wrote: Should we have a modern day coming of age rite/ceremony? Or are coming of age ceremonies irrelevant to life in modern society? Why or why not?

Too much variability across economic classes in society at large, but within a smaller society where experiences are more closely matched by participants then a ceremony could be useful if it had some practical meaning, where it is more like a promotion ceremony for achieving a course of training etc. I do not think the onset of puberty should be celebrated as its a personal thing, and puberty doesn't really stop it just slows down to normal levels so again its a personal thing.