The Impossibility of God

Scientificus wrote: A) Being all-powerful is impossible:

As defined in the definitions, being all-powerful means being able to conduct every action. That fact is debunked by this paradox:

P1: If God is all-powerful, he can jump over anything
P2: If God is all-powerful, he can build anything
R1: God, in this case, cannot build a rock he cannot jump over.

C1: He cannot perform that action, thus cannot perform all actions, thus is not all-powerful

Could your limited mind comprehend it if God was able to?

Scientificus wrote:
Being all-knowing is impossible:

As defined in the definitions, being all-knowing means knowing everything, past, present and future. That fact is debunked by this next paradox:

The question is asked to God: "Am I lying?" without any prior statement. It is then said "Answer me by a yes or no answer". God cannot answer this, as saying yes would have no weight due to having said no prior statement. If he answers no it's the same thing, This is a double whammy, as God cannot perform this action (thus is not all-powerful) and doesn't know the answer (thus is not all-knowing).

If he's all knowing he can know things that you can't so you wouldn't understand the answer he gave

Scientificus wrote: C) Being all-benevolent is impossible.

As defined in definition, being all-benevolent means wanting the best for anyone and everyone. This is easily debunkable, as God says were going to Hell if we don't accept him wholeheartedly.

Conclusion:

As seen above, the paradoxes described how it is impossible for God to be all-powerful, all-knowing and all-benevolent. Thus if he is not, it does not fit the Judeo-Christian and Islamic description of God, thus not giving the religion any weight or credibility anymore.

Your limited by your own understanding and your own morality. God is above such a limited view

How can your limited understanding of nature disprove something that is beyond your capabilities of comprehension?


I am an atheist but I remain unconvinced by your proof of this particular God's impossibility

In short: God is beyond logic, so disproving one of His aspects using logic makes no sense at all. You can say that God is illogical therefore, and you've got to admit that it explains pretty much everything

The only question I recently wanted to ask any god is: how do you know you know everything? What if there's something you don't know you didn't know? How do you know that you know for sure that there isn't something you don't know hidden in a place you don't know?

However, that is a question of curiosity. I know that I don't know whether or not any of the gods are real, and trying to prove something which reveres faith above all else seems to me to be a foolish endeavour. Knowledge may be power, but wisdom and understanding remove the limits of power.

Now to answer my own question, I would like to put this story forward to consider:

God tells man to write a book to show to the people, to convince them to follow God. Man asks, "Okay, what would you have me write about you?"
God ponders on this, and says, "Well, in your language there is no way of putting it that could make the people truly understand what I am. So I will show you, and you write what your heart feels." God shows man his true form, gives him all the knowledge man could possibly handle, and man is overwhelmed with such an incredible feeling of enlightenment and bliss. What God shows man is so powerful, that man feels humbled in God's presence, and can only seem to interpret these ideas into such comparatively simple words as omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent. Naturally they weren't the precise words he used as he was probably writing in Aramaic or Sanskrit, or some other language. But when one reads the Bible; the Qur'an; the Vedas, or any text, one must remember they were written by man. Whether man was under the influence of a god, or that of one too many drinks is speculative. But the fact remains that man was using an imperfect language to describe perfection.

The impossibility is not of God, but our understanding of the very idea.

how do you know you know everything?

Because nothing exists outside of my knowledge until it comes into my knowledge...

I might "know" about tomorrow, as in that, that is the word used to represent the day after this... But, I don't "know" it until it comes within my scope of knowledge....

There's a street in Chicago, I'm pretty sure... Only because I've not experienced it yet, it doesn't exist, to me...

That street in Chicago, someone knows its there.... And since he and I are one, and splinters of God (the force), then by that extension, God (the force) knows all we know.... Which means he/it knows everything...

As we learn new things, looking back, since it must of existed, someone, or something, probably knew of its existence, then since everything is God (the force) then he know about the stuff we don't know about too....

Lol... I think that head trip made me nauseous.... Dizzy for sure... lol...

Are you patting your head right now?

IF you are not currently patting your head, then you can never pat it.


This is in line with what you have presented with your logic.

-Charles McBride (Host of the Labrinth on Knights of Awakening) (have him on Skype )

In truth, I intended my question to be of a slightly larger outlook; not of things that happen on the earth, but, perhaps to dig deeper into the question, "How do you know that there isn't something bigger than you, outside of this multiverse, that is either looking down at you or simply exists outside of your or anyone else's knowledge? An entirely new (or old) universe/ multiverse/ dimension/ god/ existence which is, quite simply, without you?" To me it was a rhetorical question that perhaps cannot be answered except by the deity in question.

When looking into the Force, I can see that it is life. It is existence itself. It flows through everyone and everything, so it can only be assumed that the Force is omniscient, yet not in the way humans perceive omniscience. In the same way a tree knows wood; a river knows water; a mountain knows dirt, the Force knows everything. It transcends everything we know, but what if there is somewhere the Force itself is blinded from? Something not even the Force can comprehend, that isn't present in our existence, but elsewhere?

However, it is a question I'm quite happy to remain unanswered.

This discussion is a very interesting and well trod path.

Allow me to add a few random thoughts.

Philosophical discussions permit quotes and proofs, references and attributions.

D.T. Suzuki says that we can think of the soul not as an entity but as a principle; and so also can this be said of god. God is a symbol, but an entity only metaphorically.

This discussion includes a variety of symbols and metaphors that describe the principle of god as an entity. Mostly, the Abrahamic tradition’s symbols, analogies, and metaphors are the target and one path of disputation is algebraic logic. The various proofs of existence and arguments regarding attributes assume that monotheism’s God is an entity, the symbol is assumed to be a being. Any language used to describe god as an entity is necessarily analogical. How else can one describe an entity that is beyond thought and experience? The disputations expressed in this thread are often of one symbol system confronting a different symbol system – apples and oranges. But this does not mean this is either a futile or pointless discussion. What it shows is a good example of a category shift, that is, one symbol system disputing the analogical language of another symbol system with its own language.

From the readings list suggested by the Temple, Watts and Campbell would encourage our taking the path regarding the Abrahamic divinity from entity to principle, from transcendent to immanent, from Other to One. Soul, self and God are symbols and principles, analogies and metaphors through which one travels. They are helpful landmarks along the Way. But like all such elements of the spiritual landscape, as the path leads on, each of these are left behind.

Extrait from :

Why I am an Atheist

11.01.10, 09:18 PM

-- Collin McGinn

And now the question becomes what the reasons actually are to deny that God exists. Here I shall be brief, because this is well-trodden ground. In the first place, I do not think there is any evidence in favor of God’s existence (by “God” I shall mean a supernatural being with some personal characteristics who created the universe and is interested in the fate of sentient beings such as ourselves). No observable fact about the universe points towards God as its most plausible explanation, e.g. the intricate design of organisms. There is no good evidence of miracles on the part of specially endowed human beings or emanating from Beyond. The idea of a disembodied being with infinite causal powers existing imperceptibly is contrary to reason. The traditional story of such a being is better explained by certain human needs and superstitions instead of by the actual existence of such a being. It is never reasonable to believe in the existence of something simply because of human testimony, when no other evidence has ever been forthcoming. The traditional so-called proofs of God’s existence—the first-cause argument, the ontological argument, the argument from design—do not hold water. In sum: there is simply nothing out there that amounts to a decent reason to assert that there is a God. As to arguments against, there is the standard problem of evil, as well as the more general problem of making sense of a being having all the qualities said to be possessed by God (e.g. how can God be truly omnipotent granted he is a necessary being—for couldn’t he act so as to extinguish himself, thereby showing his contingency?). There is really no more reason to believe in the God I have defined than in the Greek gods or other beings of myth and legend.

All who genuinely seek to learn, whether atheist or believer, scientist or mystic, are united in having not a faith but faith itself. Its token is reverence, its habit to respect the eloquence of silence. For God's hand my be a human hand, if you reach out in loving kindness, and God's voice your voice, if you but speak the truth.

from

The Whole Shebang: A State-of-the-Universe(s) Report by Timothy Ferris