What's the Matter With Creationism?

As a starting point let's use http://www.thenation.com/article/168385/whats-matter-creationism .

by

Katha Pollitt


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This article appeared in the July 2-9, 2012 edition of The Nation. http://www.thenation.com/issue/july-2-9-2012

I really enjoyed reading this article, although I found the news very troubling. I think it is possible to believe in evolution and still believe in the Bible, if we put the bible in its proper place. The problem with the hold the Bible has on much of those in society is that it is held up as a sort of God; sacrosanct if you will. Truthfully there are at least two stories of the creation of the world in Genesis alone. Located in Genesis 1 is the traditional seven day creation, where man is the last thing created. Located in Genesis 2 is a different creation story which begins with man. The fact of the matter for me is that it doesn't matter how it happened, all that matters is that it did happen and that we are here now and need to deal with the problems presented to us.

I really enjoyed reading this article, although I found the news very troubling. I think it is possible to believe in evolution and still believe in the Bible, if we put the bible in its proper place. The problem with the hold the Bible has on much of those in society is that it is held up as a sort of God; sacrosanct if you will. Truthfully there are at least two stories of the creation of the world in Genesis alone. Located in Genesis 1 is the traditional seven day creation, where man is the last thing created. Located in Genesis 2 is a different creation story which begins with man. The fact of the matter for me is that it doesn't matter how it happened, all that matters is that it did happen and that we are here now and need to deal with the problems presented to us.

The problem with admitting a belief in evolution is that you end up looking like a heretic to those of your faith. Its the case of Galileo and the church. A truth now commonly accepting was thought to be ludicrous. In discounting the first part of the bible, you don't make the Bible null, you put it in the place it belongs. It is a guide to life as God would like it lived, but since no one was there to see the actual creation of the earth we shouldn't let the debate tear us a part.

Is the thread about Creationism or its following? I think most people use memory in such a way that they will have a better recall of idea's which are associated with the more common behaviours, and most of what is learnt in science etc (evolution) tends not to have applicability to most people in daily life and therefore is forgotten by them. Whereas religion (if taught) is based around morals which are central to daily living and therefore reinforced by association. Given the US is based on Christianity and Christianity was/is responsible for so much schooling then I guess it has a wide exposure in the US. I think that 'might' fudge the results a little... I wonder if this effect exists and has a statistical name!?

What I mean is that “God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last ten thousand years or so” could be the "shrug, I'm too busy to care about that stuff but its what I remember from when I was a kid" vote plus the "I believe with faith" vote. I wonder if that effect might elevate the result for this question.

The other 2 questions requires some knowledge and thought about evolution and so might avoid that background cultural core. I assume the poll is for the general public and so such a factor probably should be taken into account as compared to a poll of people educated on a topic, a general poll is open to all sorts of variations I'd guess.

Many people might have interpreted the question terminology of human to be a concept of the human soul and not the human body, especially since the association with God - which would make it worse because its even harder for people to develop their own opinion about the nature of a non-physical entity which is only addressed by one source as even existing. I do not like statistics.

Its also important to know how the results where gathered and where they were gathered. I think the numbers are a bit too low for college students. Just saying

'Aw, I wouldn't feel too bad.' James sympathized. When Akitaro raised his eyebrows at his lover, James just shrugged, 'The overall statistics are what's really scary: Y'know, that one in five of American adults can't even read a simple storybook to their children...'

'That college students in 2011 couldn't think of any of the issues before congress, what country our troops were fighting wars in, or what the Taliban were?' Sissy asked.

'Ooh, apparently half the adults in Detroit are functionally illiterate.' Kakeru said, pawing through the Lisa Bloom book their Author Mother was lifting these statistics from. Then, as the class clown, he really went into the act by leaning up against James' shoulder, 'Oh, Detroit is a city in MICHIGAN. You know where that is? It's in the Midwest, surrounded by two of the great lakes...' James punched him in the face.

'I grew up in Chicago, dude -- I KNOW where the Midwest and great lakes are.'

'Most of you dumb Americans aren't, though.' Akitaro cackled, taking great delight in this listing of American student's shortcomings, 'Only two percent of high school students in 2010 could correctly answer a multiple choice question, identifying a quote from the ruling of Brown vs. Board of Education of Topeka, even when given the year of the ruling, the quote included a direct reference to race and educational facilities, AND Brown vs. Board was the only option that was against a school board. Not only did they not know their history, but they couldn't even make an educated GUESS.

'And, to top it off, we whip you guys in any international competition in science and math.'

'You got an F in math when you were in school, Barazoku.'

'That's not the point.'

"Yeah... the original point was about CREATIONISM -- guys, how'd you get so horribly off track?" Jack demanded. James sat up, looking rightfully ashamed.

'I was just making the point that the Creationism debate is actually kind of petty compared to the grand scale of American student's improper education.' He mumbled.

"I will agree with you on that." Jack shrugged, "And, actually, it is kind of sad that the Creationism debate gets all this big media attention and you see tons of articles about it, over and over and over, but you have to dig and hunt and fight to see the even more pressing problem that half our adults can't read anything, from a magazine to a book to a warning sign to a prescription label. Stang, I only heard about it after reading a book, and even then, it was only one chapter devoted to the subject."

That made everyone cringe.

Rosalyn J wrote: Its also important to know how the results where gathered and where they were gathered. I think the numbers are a bit too low for college students. Just saying

I have to agree completely with Ros, obviously something is wrong with these figures. I've been to two different colleges, and hung around a big university for a while, and over 50%-60% of the population that attended these schools were not Creationists. Most of the people I hung around with were Christians who believed in a synthesis between the bible and evolution, Muslims who didn't believe in Creationism, and atheists, agnostics, and Pagans. The only people who were creationists were those in their 30+ years, and maybe some of the High School kids taking college credit classes who hardly get to hear about evolution do to an uproar from the parents and Creationists in the class. And believe you me, they made QUITE the uproar.

How about if we stipulate a significant number of people do not believe in evolution?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx

Richard Dawkins described anti-evolutionists as “ignorant, stupid or insane.” He'd probably agree with a fourth option of delusional.

Do you (Gentle Readers) agree?



"In telling of creation, the Bible writers never undertook to teach science. The Bible tells us that God made the world, and the universe, and that he sustains it continually, but it does not tell us how he did it or how long was the process. On this matter the Bible has been misunderstood."

From "Religion and Evolution"
William Goodell Frost

I agree that in many cases people's beliefs are indeed delusional. That isn't to say I am intolerant of them, just that their beliefs are completely contrary to scientific evidence and proof.

Adder wrote: Given the US is based on Christianity

I take that (possibly erroneously) to mean that you are saying, as many creationists and Christian fundamentalists do, that the US was founded as a Christian nation

In this regard (assuming it is what you intended to mean) you are, I'm afraid, completely and utterly wrong in every respect

The US was never founded as a Christian nation which is the reason why, funnily enough, the separation of church and state is the first thing mentioned in the constitution


As for the college students statistic. There are many college courses that I would hardly call being worthy of a degree... http://www.toptenz.net/to-10-useless-college-classes-degrees.php

So calling some college students delusional is not wholly untrue :laugh:

In an attempt not to derail this thread into a discussion about education (though maybe it should be...) the vast majority of college/university courses give you absolutely no additional worth academically or monetarily after finishing the course

Please enrol responsibly

'Ooh, burn, Miss Author -- BURN!' James laughed, scrolling down the list of top ten useless degrees. And, what a coinkidink, philosophy was on that list.

"Ah, yes -- sage advise on the real meaning of life always comes from the 'Go to college to get a degree to get a job, it has nothing to do with thought' camp. No thanks -- I'd rather work meager part-time jobs and have a good grasp of the world than blow a fortune on a 'Chase the rat race' degree." Jack sneered right back.

And, besides, it was on the INTERNET, so it MUST be true!