The Great Holocron: A Community Learning Tool

Hello everyone! It has been sometime since I have been active in the Jedi Community, and I was hoping to try to get reconnected with many individuals, not only by conversing here but also by attempting to refound and collect many older pieces of Jediism teachings. I've collected knowledge by many of it's former and still current members, and I am opening up a new discussion and teaching community called The Great Holocron . According to SW lore, the Great Holocron was the largest repository of Jedi knowledge in the galaxy. It contained every teaching from ever practitioner and master of the Jedi Order.

I am seeking to create such a repository for the Jediism community. When a site is closed down, along with it goes priceless kernels of wisdom from members of our community that will never be recovered. The community's goal is to create not only a discussion community for Jedi, and all other metaphysical believers, but also to organize it around an infrastructure that remains permanent and requires no physical or monetary upkeep. In other words: It will not fade. It will always be there.

If you would like to help out with the community, please send me an email to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..

May The Force Be With You!

This is a good idea. But I have several questions.

What counts as being worth including in the library? Do you just name a topic and people post ideas and discuss? If so that is just a forum.

Do you post a topic and then have people comment what their thoughts are with no discussion? If so then you have only a snapshot of information. Views change all the time and in the future a member might want to have what they originally posted completely different.

Is it just a library of books? That's a nice idea, but the potential gain in wisdom is limited if we cannot talk about those books.

I write this with the assumption that this is quite literally like you have posted. A repository.

I'm just wondering how much of a repository is it going to be in relation to just how much of a forum it will be.

But if this is a standard Jediism forum then while I wish you well in creating another community there doesn't seem much point as there are already communities that exist.

I wish you all the best of luck either way.

Usually, when a discussion is started (provided it keeps its initial topic) it ends up in one opinion common to all while each individual may have minor additions for people aren't always alike.
Now, one issue still open is, that the constellation of people on different communities may also vary and therefore, if similar topics are opened in multiple communities, their results may be quite different as well.
Maybe, The Great Holocron could be a community of representatives for all the other communities, who represent the position of the community in a discussion on that topic, where they would compare the opinions and find an opinion, that would satisfy all the represented Jedi. While this is would still be no ultimate truth and expandable or changable in future times and generations, this could be a valid Jedi teaching for the time being.

What do you think?

Hello, Seer. Your name seems familiar to me, and I'm wondering if I haven't seen you before at JEDI or DEGA with Relan Volkum. If you've been in the Jedi scene for a while, then you know the Great Holocron was attempted before, and it wasn't that great.

The number one problem was simple things creeping in, like Force Balls, and such exercises. Or people talking about how to lift boulders with their minds. Without a standardized curriculum, in my personal opinion, I feel the Great Holocron project is potentially doomed to failure. It's one of the reasons I decided to stay here is because of the standardized entry curriculum. Everyone goes through the same process to a point.

I can't remember how many times a Great Holocron has been attempted, but it's been a few. In any case, I feel the potential for a database of knowledge is always good, I'm just unconvinced this will end well.

Though I should probably stop with being a Negative Netty.

So this Great Holocron will be open discussion and debate on matters, and a collection of "kernels of wisdom"? How is the wisdom selected? How is it vetted? I can see where the potential is, and I hope it goes well. I would feel compelled to inject my own bits if I didn't think I needed to learn more. I still feel my training is incomplete, but then I don't think it will be a feeling I will ever get over.

I wish you luck, Seer, and if I can help in some way I will do so.

May The Force be with you, Seer, always.
-Halcyon

Greetings, and thank you all for the replies!

First, let me elaborate a little more on lore and what a holocron is and is not. According to canon, a jedi holocron is not merely a repository of knowledge, but rather it is an interactive knowledgebase that contained not only the wisdom and teachings of the master who made it, but also his collective experiences and his personality. This allowed anyone who accessed the holocron to be able to carry on an actual conversation and be taught, in a classroom or mentor setting, just like you would with a flesh and blood. So this allowed things like debates and conversations to be had, and not simply turning pages in a book (of course, why would you have a read only holocron if they have books?!).

So I think it's important to point out that The Great Holocron community is not simply read only. It's a community that's interactive and takes the community of knowledge and allows it to be shared and discussed around a framework that requires no upkeep, security or financial support to maintain. It's the perfect solution for both disinterest and inactivity that I am sure many of you understand, may come and go.

Second, I think it's important to lay to rest the concerns and beliefs that Jediism requires a specific set of curriculum, or dogmatic principles that are universally accepted or believed in. Part of the reasons I became a member of, and participated in, the Jedi Community for as long as I have, is because of it's decentralization. I have found no tales among serious students who seek knowledge or experience, understanding of the human condition, and a wider aspect of the Force, who spoke of "lifting boulders" or other nonsense.

I believe, with respect, that it is arrogant to take ownership, or at least decree what is acceptable to be taught, and what is unacceptable. This is something that is akin to the Catholic Church's teachings during the medieval time periods and something that should be approached with caution. Certainly it is laudable to reject obvious nonsensical ideas (such as, lifting boulders, force balls, etc;), however I would think it more of an academically safe approach to allow the collective common sense and experiences of the community as a whole to decide the merits of such things. This is, as opposed to the current setting I believe exists here, where a select few debate and decide what is to be taught, and what is not to be taught. This leads to not only, and again, with respect, arrogance, but also to mistakes and lost knowledge. Who is to say what is not possible and what is possible, through the force. I am reminded of a christian proverb, "With God, all things are possible." Should such things not be true also, to the force?

In the end, this community exists for it's members, and the major difference is that three years from now, the site will still remain accessible to the public. This is because it requires no up keep and it does not rely upon security infrastructure or monthly/yearly commitments from anyone. When a Jediism community is closed, along with it goes the accumulation of knowledge, wisdom and experiences of all it's members. That is a tragedy and should never be the case again. That is the mission behind the Holocron project.

Seer, if that's how you feel then I support your efforts one hundred percent.

Upon further reading of my own post, it was a bit callous, and I'm sorry about that. I would love to be a part of your efforts in whatever way I can.

May The Force be with you, Seer, always.
-Halcyon

I haven't been here for a long time, though I do not believe, that, for instance, on this community here, you have anything different. There are teachings that come with other philosophies and religions and that is not a matter of decision, but of fact, whether they are part of Jediism (it remains a matter of decision though, whether they are combinable or contradictory to Jedi beliefs). But everyone here, for what I got, has the opportunity to learn the knowledge that is considered specifically Jediist, in some cases even knowledge that is beyond Jediism and related ideas, and of course, besides the learning through this community, there is also the world out there all the members here can gain their knowledge and wisdom from.
I do not see, that there is information of philosophical or ethical value (not including concrete examples or real life stories), that would be restricted or changed to the way our leaders (if that's the way one would call them) would like us to get it. I think, that this community here is tolerant and transparent enough, thus we neither are hiding anything from the one who wants to learn nor we are teaching anyone anything he or she would not want to learn. We do not teach maths here, for that is not why we are here and there are other platforms doing that job. But what is Jedi information can be gained here by anyone who wants while it is not being forced to the ones who don't (they do neither need to start any programme nor even to join, after all).
While I appreciate the enthusiasm behind the idea of another Jedi community, the only point I would see why one more could be founded, is, to eventually unite all the different (serious) Jedi societies already present.

Seer wrote: This is, as opposed to the current setting I believe exists here, where a select few debate and decide what is to be taught, and what is not to be taught. This leads to not only, and again, with respect, arrogance, but also to mistakes and lost knowledge. Who is to say what is not possible and what is possible, through the force.

I understand your concern, but we have never positioned ourselves to be the alpha and omega of Jediism. We have our own teachings on what we think Jediism is about but we haven't, and never will, proclaim to be the only valid Jediism site.

There are lots of Jedi communities, I don't ever really interact with any of them but I know others here do. I like what is taught here but that doesn't mean I would hate and ignore what other groups of Jedi teach.

But thank you for clarifying what you mean. It sounds more like a database to me, which is a nice idea though you would probably have to start fresh as just trying to back up this website would take quite a lot! I doubt many members here have read posts and threads that I remember commenting on nearly 4 and a half years ago! lol

I would be interested to see how your project develops. I had one suggestion though. I don't know if you have ever read The Great Jedi Holocron, it's very interesting and about 1800 pages long (I have yet to read it all) but if you get the chance that could be the sort of thing you might want.

The way it works is basically just hundreds of people each write a small component so that you end up having a massive tome on pretty much every subject. Might be worth looking into.

(The Great Jedi Holocron)
http://www.fileboar.com/download/5579412/22327641/The%20Great%20Jedi%20Holocron.pdf

How does a site exist without money?

How about site upgrades, better software, spam filters, hosting fees, to name some issues?

We are pretty bare bones here as very few donate, and our founder bares the brunt of the cost....

He doesn't complain, he does it with love...

He doesn't visit other sites asking people to come to us, they find us on their own....

What select few pick topics? Honestly, few topics are refused, even this one, where you are looking for members to begin your own thing, is tolerated...

And, I'm happy our members have responded as they have...

With politeness for your idea, yet love, happiness, and contentment with our theology, and ideology here at TOTJO...

As far as the different Jedi Communities...

I speak for myself, yet I think/I believe, we all wish them well....

It is this diversity, and difference between us that allows us to grow....

Different Jedi races exist in the fiction, and although we are all human (I'm pretty sure! ), that kind of idea is seen with the difference in what we do/say/stand for/use in our training....

Good luck...

And I hope your journey is exactly what you need, and looking for....

I can see you felt offended by my post, Jestor. I apologize and I hope you understand that despite making himself ready, a man in a desert cannot be visited by many. What I mean by this, is that regardless of how or when you started, you had to have created at least some visibility. Certainly now you do not feel the need to advertise your community, because it is a wonderfully large and well organized thing. I commend you and your community members on this and I too hope to share in your wisdom, and experiences. But wisdom would suggest that it's important to remember where we come from, regardless of how long ago that was.

My site has no need for financing,nor software nor spam filters or hosting fees. This is the crux of the issue that makes The Great Holocron project unique; no one person, or group of people, bares the burden of anything. Invisionfree as a company makes it a commitment to maintain their own servers and software and they routinely update it. I have been using it for many years and I have not discovered a better software available to people at no cost. To make a community avilable to share knowledge, one does not need to know php,html, apache systems or SQL Databases. You only need a desire to learn, work together and share with kindness, humility and love, the collective experiences of our lives. That is what makes the community, more so than any type of forum software or security feature.

As for my comment regarding topics chosen, I apologize if you saw offense by this. I was merely responding to the concern about how we choose what is to be included in the Great Holocron project. I meant no disrespect and I only made a cursory examination of your teachings, and insofar as what I read, I deduced that you have staff which approves certain things to be taught, and others are not. Is this incorrect?

I sense a little hostility towards my project and for that I am truly sorry. In my time among the Jedi community, I have learned that we as Jedi, regardless of our country of origins, our sexual, religious, or political orientation and indeed, the community we come from, must work together. Collaboration breeds greater knowledge and a wider scope of experience, wisdom and fellowship. This benefits not only each other, but ourselves as well.

Halcyon, I will be in touch with you privately, and I am glad to hear your willingness to pitch in.

In reference to the earlier post(s) that mentioned ridiculous ideas in some Jedi groups such as boulder-lifting, force-balls and whatnot, I have to say that one of the reasons I initially shied away from Jediism upon initially discovering it, despite my having a lifelong calling to be a Jedi, is because most Jedi groups don't take it seriously. I mean, I have no problem with them and I wish them well, but some of them are just Star Wars fan clubs, nothing too much deeper than that. No philosophy, no real religious aspects, just a club of people who otherwise claim no religion who think it's cute to enter "Jedi" on their census. I am not making a generalization of Jediism, I am merely stating that there are an alarming number of groups out there like that. I've been in contact with some of them and many of them are good, morally sound people, but to them the Jedi teachings and the Force are no more than a theme. Such material should, in my opinion, be kept out of the holocron, unless of course it is just meant to be a comprehensive guide to the Jediism movement as a whole.

Seer wrote: I can see you felt offended by my post, Jestor. I apologize and I hope you understand that despite making himself ready, a man in a desert cannot be visited by many. What I mean by this, is that regardless of how or when you started, you had to have created at least some visibility.

No, I'm not offended... Nor are you the first to come here looking for members, nor will you be the last...

That's ok... Those that wish to remain part of our community, will remain...

Shoot, people come and go all the time... Maybe you are just what some are looking for...

I just think it is in poor taste, of anyone... I belong to other sites, I'm in the midst of the training at another site...

I didn't join there and with my first post seek members for TOTJO... I didn't ask anyone for anything, except what they had to offer...

I did announce my allegiance to TOTJO, and the fact that I'm happy where I'm at... I just came to learn....

Certainly now you do not feel the need to advertise your community, because it is a wonderfully large and well organized thing. I commend you and your community members on this and I too hope to share in your wisdom, and experiences. But wisdom would suggest that it's important to remember where we come from, regardless of how long ago that was.

I am not a founding member of TOTJO, the exact way membership was started I could not say, as I was not here...

And you are welcome to stay, learn and share....

Thank you for the compliments... However, as you said, it is the members make us who, and what, we are....

Manners would suggest, you don't go poaching for members....

My site has no need for financing,nor software nor spam filters or hosting fees. This is the crux of the issue that makes The Great Holocron project unique; no one person, or group of people, bares the burden of anything. Invisionfree as a company makes it a commitment to maintain their own servers and software and they routinely update it. I have been using it for many years and I have not discovered a better software available to people at no cost. To make a community avilable to share knowledge, one does not need to know php,html, apache systems or SQL Databases. You only need a desire to learn, work together and share with kindness, humility and love, the collective experiences of our lives. That is what makes the community, more so than any type of forum software or security feature.

Hmmm, ok, I just stated elsewhere I'm not a computer guru...

You can probably explain that to someone who understands more than I do... I'm just struggling to do what I do now....:shrug:

As for my comment regarding topics chosen, I apologize if you saw offense by this. I was merely responding to the concern about how we choose what is to be included in the Great Holocron project. I meant no disrespect and I only made a cursory examination of your teachings, and insofar as what I read, I deduced that you have staff which approves certain things to be taught, and others are not. Is this incorrect?

No, I saw no offence... By continuing this discussion, I hope to show that we... don't censor...

We might edit for a profanity, or delete and block a user for spam, but we dont censor....

The conversations here have a life of their own... Homelessness, "Would you kill a man", Abortion, SOPA, bullies....

Because time is limited on this earth, focus needs to placed on our own evolution... Making ourselves better, and better....

It is the opinion of the TOTJO Council that this program we have outlined is the best way for that to happen...

Our, "wonderfully large and well organized" community was by design... Structure, and framework makes things stable...

I don't see a free-for-all (its how i picture your project... forgive me if im off), really accomplishing what we accomplish...

While the program was made and designed by committee, it is not written in stone... It is subject to interpretation, opinion, and perspective... And change, should it be determined to need to...

And when the Master/Apprentice relationship begins it is even more specialized....

I sense a little hostility towards my project and for that I am truly sorry. In my time among the Jedi community, I have learned that we as Jedi, regardless of our country of origins, our sexual, religious, or political orientation and indeed, the community we come from, must work together. Collaboration breeds greater knowledge and a wider scope of experience, wisdom and fellowship. This benefits not only each other, but ourselves as well.

I agree... As i said, I don't see us as having the same goals...

Every interaction is a chance to learn and grow... A lesson...

Good luck....

Thank you Master Jestor. This is a good lesson on [strike]manners[/strike] lack of manners making a horrible fist impression. I can attest I never barged on other organizations sites and 'advertised' for TOTJO - not from day 1.

C3PO: "How rude!"

Ordinations and classrooms do not give wisdom. Time, humility and a willingness to learn are the hallmarks of someone seeking to study the Force. If you are so vain that you must compete with me to keep your own members ( who can make up their own minds on whether to join, or not--they do not reqire your help ), then I think its quite clear you have a lot to discover along your paths, Jestor and John. I wish both of you the best, and I hope one day you will have the humility and wisdom to not see threats where there are only offered hands.

Seer wrote: Ordinations and classrooms do not give wisdom..

"Knowledge without action is insanity, and action without knowledge is vanity"
Al-Ghazali 1058-1111 (maybe)

Seer wrote: If you are so vain that you must compete with me to keep your own members ( who can make up their own minds on whether to join, or not--they do not reqire your help ), then I think its quite clear you have a lot to discover along your paths, Jestor and John. I wish both of you the best, and I hope one day you will have the humility and wisdom to not see threats where there are only offered hands.

Seer, I don't believe they saw your site as a threat, but rather were remarking on the breach of etiquette. It is widely accepted internet etiquette to not advertise for your site on someone else's unless they have a specific forum rule or subsection of the forum denoting otherwise.

Etiquette is something we as Jedi must make efforts on for the very reason we're encountering here. When etiquette is ignored or unknown, and therefore breached, it leaves those that are a part of the group that practice that etiquette put off. Should we as Jedi try to rise above others' breaches of etiquette to see through to the deeper knowledge or point as we seek understanding? Quite so. However, while Jedi, we are human and our initial response is reactionary, further as someone part of the Jedi community it could be expected that you would endeavor to meet appropriate standards of etiquette for the people and medium in which you are communicating. Should a Jedi lecture those that are not Jedi on Jedi decorum? Clearly not, but if another Jedi is out of bounds its part of our mutual instruction of each other to provide those that have erred with the knowledge of that error if they are unaware and provide them the opportunity to learn and grow.

Further, indignation and speaking down to others do not serve to repair a dialogue and are far from appropriate responses in navigating a discussion which clearly turned into debate some time ago, they only serve to flare tempers and harden others against any opinion you might offer later, regardless of validity.