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Jediism and drinking
- Carlos.Martinez3
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Hope this helps .
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- Carlos.Martinez3
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Chaplain of the Temple of the Jedi Order
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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"A serious and good philosophical work could be written consisting entirely of jokes" - Wittgenstein
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Who drank 'til he shriveled a kidney
He drank and he drank
And it shrank and it shrank
But he sure had fun doing it
Didn't he?
Founder of The Order
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He does state that he personally doesn't drink because apparently people with aspergers have lower tolerance as a result.
That sounds anecdotal at best.
As far as it goes, and hey, if you want to use the search function to see how this question has been discussed before, go for it! - Taoism and Nietzsche both oppose alcohol use, and both inform my views - however I am by fits and turns a perennial user of the stuff.
As for caffeine, well....*sip*
Do I encourage drug use in others? No, not really.
Do I think the whole point of being human is to make your own damn decisions on your own ability to measure risk and benefit? Yes.
Do I think Jediism is (or should be) a tool to deny what it is to be human? Nope.
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The sentiment from my study and understanding, is meant more as advisement to distance oneself from harmful temptation.
I personally craft / brew and consume various types of Alcohol, however I have a solid control on the amount of alcohol I consume and when I consume it. Where it concerns smoke however (tobacco / marijuana), I am more prone to overindulge; so there fore I no longer consume those types of products.
If you can exercise and maintain control, by all means enjoy an occasional beverage. If you can't control your consumption, or your behavior in the midst of whatever choice substance you've used - you should probably abstain.
So long and thanks for all the fish
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And though avoidance for avoidance sake seems naive - in the absence of time enough or education enough to partake in something without appropriate awareness and understanding of its actions and effects..... then it might be a good temporary rule of thumb.
Even if he did think it had merit, it would surely take a whole volume of its own and be an advanced stage after much progress on other parts of self development (for a system to endorse it).
I prefer the approach of strictly avoiding social usage unless its the rarest of occasions, just because the dynamics of motive within groups can detach oneself from appropriate focus (situational awareness (inner and outer), dosage and symptom record keeping, substance quality control, subject matter knowledge recall) that seems required for 'use' of substances for spiritual development.
To me the most compelling reason is the only reason needed, health, and I think the only reason sugar and alcohol are rather disastrous to our health is just because its so prevalent and ingrained in our cultures that its use is way over the top, used as a superficial bandaid for woes (hunger, emotion, stress). Peoples inability to exert self control in diet, distraction and entertainment are probably the main reason the more powerful substances remain illegal! History shows that if a society is vulnerable to addictions (see the Opium Wars ) then it is prone to fall to them, either at their own hand or the hand of another. So I don't like the 'avoid' argument, but I understand its place, and how it impacts me and my actions to its topic. I think it will always be an individuals decision, and is not really something which should be promoted, or denied, at the level of the individual.
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My justification is that I drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, drink caffeinated drinks, eat sugary food, etc. For all of these, I feel that I've found the limits at which I still have control over myself and my usage doesn't bother anyone else.
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My general rule of thumb, with substances is it screwing up the things/activities you like doing?
That's IMHO where a negative effect (besides biological) first develops as far as substances go. From there if not addressed for some it gets worse others not. I have my substance I avoid completely because of that tendency. Other things I'm fine.
So moderation and contemplation.
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Kobos
What has to come ? Will my heart grow numb ?
How will I save the world ? By using my mind like a gun
Seems a better weapon, 'cause everybody got heat
I know I carry mine, since the last time I got beat
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I passed my driving test before Christmas and since then I have barely drank anything alcoholic. The lockdown however is a different story but I don't become reliant on the drink, if it becomes a habit then I stop it, it's nice to relax with a drink as long as it doesn't become something I have to do and that would be my take on what Daniel may mean. Some people are straight edge and don't drink at all, don't smoke etc, I am currently 3 months smoke free and that's their choice but I think as long as it doesn't become a problem and distract you from the will of the force then it's okay in moderation.
Thanks
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Concerning Drinking: I actually happen to be of the belief that controlled substances shouldn't be engaged by Jedi for the purpose of spiritual pursuits. I do believe that one should know their limits, and shouldn't drink with the intent to get drunk. But I disagree that it's a "high" you need to seek in your spiritual pursuits.
To me, refraining from these things makes you a better Jedi because you are more aware of the world around you, and can respond to it in kind. If you're seeking a high by connecting to the Force, you're stroking your ego, rather than seeking real spirituality. The Force is a source of information, strength, healing, peace and comfort. In many respects, it should be treated as sacred, not as something to be used for fun.
Now, I'm not saying that Daniel is saying it is. I'm just arguing against the use of the language "high".
Gather at the River,
Setanaoko Oceana
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Drink, don't drink. The choice has little actual relation to Jediism.
"Evil is always possible. And goodness is eternally difficult."
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Edan wrote: Jediism isn't really 'anything' because Jediism is at any point a set of rules which we each decide.. we don't have religious texts, messiahs, dogma etc for the most part. TOTJO has its own set of expectations but many an argument here has begun due to the fact that nobody is obliged to agree with them.
Drink, don't drink. The choice has little actual relation to Jediism.
I can't agree more with this.
Jediism, or at least TOTJO's branding of it is great because it focuses more on spirituality than religious governance. When churches and temples are focused more on governing a general populous (I,e The Vatican, Buddhist Sangha Council, šarīʿah law) you end up with religious wars, inquisitions, oppressive campaigns targeting education, extremism, etc.
It would seem that churches and religious institutions would be more focused on matters solely concerning the spirit, rather than physical / mental / emotional concerns; however is unfortunately largely not the case.
Concerns such as those should be handled by law enforcement, rehabilitative services, community councils, and volunteer workers; rather than institutions focused on matters of faith.
So long and thanks for all the fish
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Alethea: I think what he went by high isn't a literal high. I think he meant what Rob was getting at, as in it distracts you from the force. That being said I do think the wording was slightly off.
I think the reason it, not "bothered me" per say, but rather it tinged a little is because of the way it was written. My meaning being that it sounded like he was Stating what one should or shouldn't do, as opposed to simply giving advice on what we should or shouldn't do.
Then again that might just be my interpretation.
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The way I see it, it's your body and your mind. Do what you want with them, but try to do so intelligently. If you understand the risks involved with consuming alcohol or anything else and you consent to take that risk, it is your free choice to do so insofar as it does not harm others. No one is going to kick you out of the Temple for having a beer. It may even be beneficial from time to time.
If you find that having a beer makes you and those around you have a better time at a party and doesn't harm anyone, then sure, have a beer. I'll tell you from experience, though, it's really hard to meditate effectively after your fourth or fifth serving!
If you've got a family history of alcoholism, it might not be the best idea. Ultimately it's your body, so invest in it in the ways you see appropriate and try to do so wisely.
EDIT: Also, I'd like to say that mind altering substances have been part of religious and spiritual systems for thousands of years. Whether it is the soma of India or the amanita mushrooms or, even to this day, ayahuasca in the Amazon, these substances have only relatively recently been regarded negatively by religious organizations and, particularly, Western religious organizations. They have served as a tool for personal growth for almost all of our ancestors and I, personally, find the taboo around them to be puzzling to say the least.
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I can't drink beer though. I prefer either mead, to make me all warm inside, or a nice apple bourbon over rocks to ease into the night.
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- Carlos.Martinez3
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For me, when that happens - Statements like “as in Rome” can be a excuse for actions or or permission for promiscuous activity, or a way to create a equal mark in life where the worth of things is ”inherit.” My choice.
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- Carlos.Martinez3
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I’ll bum a cig just to get that time to hear what is inside.
I’ll pour you a dink any day upon request
* I am a Mixologist
I’ll also pay and call ya a cab or take ya home to your wife or hub or family.
I’ve carried wounded soldiers a few miles...
I’ll gladly carry any human who needs a lift.
I drink
I have levels
Jedi have levels or seasons. My hope is they also have a bit of character. Their own - regardless of influence.
Pastor Carlos.
Chaplain of the Temple of the Jedi Order
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Even a broken clock is right twice a day though. I say unless you are abusing alcohol or caffeine to a level that's harming you, they are fine to use as you please. That goes for marijuana too. Next we need to discuss LSD, mushrooms, MDMA ,,, they all have a proper use.
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1.0 out of 5 stars Skip it
Reviewed in the United States on April 24, 2018
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Let me start by saying that I don’t know Daniel M Jones. Other than this book, my exposure to him is limited to one or two interviews he’s given. So, it’s entirely possible that the impression the book gives of Daniel M Jones and the real Daniel M Jones are two very different things.
That said this book was terrible and does very little to convey an accurate picture of the Jedi
Community, it’s history or it’s core beliefs. So, if you’re considering this book because you’re looking for insight into real world Jedi philosophy and teachings, I’d advise you to turn to the internet instead.
The problems seem to arise from the fact that Jones appears to be very ego driven. He read some new age books, and then was inspired by a conversation with a co-worker to start his own church. However, while one would assume that someone starting their own philosophical system would initially focus on discussion and finding a place to work out their new faith, Jones instead decides to put out a press release. He then does an interview and is then upset that the interview did not immediately turn into more attention. This all points to Jones failing to take real time to consider and explore before jumping in and wanting to be the poster boy for real world Jedi (Jones even concedes when he has been confronted by Jedi who have been in the community longer than he has, or who disagree with him that he has the reaction of “do you know who I am? I put Jediism on the map, not you guys”... except the Jedi path isn’t one of seeking fame).
The fact that the early parts of the book are filled with superlatives about Jones, which I can’t help but be shocked that co-author Theresa Cheung didn’t cut or tone down, sets up what seems to be the true nature of Jones very quickly - He appears to want attention. He wants to be recognized. He wants the credit, whether he deserves it or not.
The fact of the matter is the the real world Jedi community is more than 20 years old, significantly predating Jones. Conspicuously Jones does everything he can to skirt that issue (“As far as I was aware when I founded the Church of Jediism there were no other Jedi organizations. I believe I was the first to form an online group of note in 2007”) which seems ridiculous when Google is a thing that exists, and Jones could fact check that real word Jedi had been operating on line for years prior to Church of Jediism.
That notwithstanding, what Jones offers in this book feels like little more than bad science and rehashed tropes from a million bad new age books (he actually touches on Indigo Children and the Law of Attraction stuff presented in The Secret, to give a couple well known examples) which have nothing to do with actual Jedi philosophy. You won’t find anything here that you haven’t seen elsewhere. It’s all fluffy feel good philosophy that isn’t going to do anything to bring you closer to being like the Jedi presented in the films. There’s nothing here to get you past your ego. To really build toward empathy. To work at making you better and more “in tune”. To get you go be more conscientious and service oriented.
It’s just fluffy tropes.
I would seriously advise against this book. It’s not going to lead you down the Jedi path. It’s nothing new. It really feels like it’s just another chance for the author to get some attention. And really, I don’t mean to present this as a gripe session about the author, but it’s frustrating when about half of each chapter is Jones recounting stories from his life about founding his church, or doing press for his church, or how special and unique he was as a child. These stories aren’t on point anecdotes. The book doesn’t need them. And it only feels like they exist to spotlight the author over the material.
I wish Jones the best. And I sincerely hope that the path he’s found helps him, but I can’t recommend this book to someone who is interested in learning more about the Jedi path.
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