Jediism and drinking

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14 Apr 2020 20:41 #351111 by Carlos.Martinez3
I drink coffee in the morning along with soda and a Cig or smoke some mornings. Some days a Red Bull and water is where I’m at too. I don’t fiend - some days I get caffeine headaches but that’s part of the use I guess. It is the Opinion - of this Pastor that a good balance is always a good thing, regardless of what. Too much is always too much. Some days I drink to much juice and it’s obvious- Then again - that can differ from 7.5 billion to 7.5 billion. Results may vary and WILL. Expect it.
Hope this helps .

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14 Apr 2020 20:55 #351114 by
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Well said. I mostly drink gfuel for the caffiene and the vitamins in it. That and it takes really good for having no sugar or splenda in it.

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14 Apr 2020 21:10 #351119 by Carlos.Martinez3
I gotta have my two pink packs for coffee - it’s rare now I don’t take anything - but I will - I’ve drank coffee from a pot and sock - everything from that day on is a good cup for me.

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14 Apr 2020 21:19 #351121 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic Jediism and drinking
Eh, everyone pretends like their habits are within the totally reasonable bounds and will try and find post hoc rationalizations. Finding a good standard I'd think balances the interests of personal enjoyment with health and other lifestyle factors. Acting as though any one specific action (alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, etc.) is necessarily and in itself good or bad seems a bit reductive

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14 Apr 2020 21:27 #351122 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic Jediism and drinking
There once was a sailor from Sydney
Who drank 'til he shriveled a kidney
He drank and he drank
And it shrank and it shrank
But he sure had fun doing it
Didn't he?

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14 Apr 2020 21:58 #351124 by JamesSand
Replied by JamesSand on topic Jediism and drinking
The search fun, a Jedi's friend is.

He does state that he personally doesn't drink because apparently people with aspergers have lower tolerance as a result.


That sounds anecdotal at best.

As far as it goes, and hey, if you want to use the search function to see how this question has been discussed before, go for it! - Taoism and Nietzsche both oppose alcohol use, and both inform my views - however I am by fits and turns a perennial user of the stuff.

As for caffeine, well....*sip*

Do I encourage drug use in others? No, not really.

Do I think the whole point of being human is to make your own damn decisions on your own ability to measure risk and benefit? Yes.

Do I think Jediism is (or should be) a tool to deny what it is to be human? Nope.
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14 Apr 2020 21:58 #351125 by Kohadre
Replied by Kohadre on topic Jediism and drinking
Alcohol / drinking, smoking / hard drugs, sweet treats, fast foods ,etc.

The sentiment from my study and understanding, is meant more as advisement to distance oneself from harmful temptation.

I personally craft / brew and consume various types of Alcohol, however I have a solid control on the amount of alcohol I consume and when I consume it. Where it concerns smoke however (tobacco / marijuana), I am more prone to overindulge; so there fore I no longer consume those types of products.

If you can exercise and maintain control, by all means enjoy an occasional beverage. If you can't control your consumption, or your behavior in the midst of whatever choice substance you've used - you should probably abstain.

So long and thanks for all the fish
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15 Apr 2020 00:28 #351132 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Jediism and drinking
To be fair to the bloke, it's really tricky for a spiritual system to endorse and teach use of mind/boy altering substances.

And though avoidance for avoidance sake seems naive - in the absence of time enough or education enough to partake in something without appropriate awareness and understanding of its actions and effects..... then it might be a good temporary rule of thumb.

Even if he did think it had merit, it would surely take a whole volume of its own and be an advanced stage after much progress on other parts of self development (for a system to endorse it).

I prefer the approach of strictly avoiding social usage unless its the rarest of occasions, just because the dynamics of motive within groups can detach oneself from appropriate focus (situational awareness (inner and outer), dosage and symptom record keeping, substance quality control, subject matter knowledge recall) that seems required for 'use' of substances for spiritual development.

To me the most compelling reason is the only reason needed, health, and I think the only reason sugar and alcohol are rather disastrous to our health is just because its so prevalent and ingrained in our cultures that its use is way over the top, used as a superficial bandaid for woes (hunger, emotion, stress). Peoples inability to exert self control in diet, distraction and entertainment are probably the main reason the more powerful substances remain illegal! History shows that if a society is vulnerable to addictions (see the Opium Wars ) then it is prone to fall to them, either at their own hand or the hand of another. So I don't like the 'avoid' argument, but I understand its place, and how it impacts me and my actions to its topic. I think it will always be an individuals decision, and is not really something which should be promoted, or denied, at the level of the individual.

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15 Apr 2020 02:44 #351142 by
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Short version of my opinion: controlled substance usage is ok (morally, since legal standpoints are a whole 'nother ballgame) within reasonable limits. What those limits are differ from person to person.

My justification is that I drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, drink caffeinated drinks, eat sugary food, etc. For all of these, I feel that I've found the limits at which I still have control over myself and my usage doesn't bother anyone else.

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15 Apr 2020 13:20 #351149 by Kobos
Replied by Kobos on topic Jediism and drinking
Moderation is key.

My general rule of thumb, with substances is it screwing up the things/activities you like doing?

That's IMHO where a negative effect (besides biological) first develops as far as substances go. From there if not addressed for some it gets worse others not. I have my substance I avoid completely because of that tendency. Other things I'm fine.

So moderation and contemplation.

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Seems a better weapon, 'cause everybody got heat
I know I carry mine, since the last time I got beat
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15 Apr 2020 13:27 #351150 by
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So whilst I'm still new I thought I'd chip in as I have a bit of experience. I do like a drink, I do love a couple of glasses of whiskey and use to love a smoke with it. I don't do drugs or anything like that. I think Daniel might be speaking from a perspective that says if Jediists don't need other stimulants than the force, it could distract a Jedi from the will of the force if they are reliant on other things. A few people have said that as long as it doesn't consume you and you are reliant on drinking then I'd say it's okay.

I passed my driving test before Christmas and since then I have barely drank anything alcoholic. The lockdown however is a different story but I don't become reliant on the drink, if it becomes a habit then I stop it, it's nice to relax with a drink as long as it doesn't become something I have to do and that would be my take on what Daniel may mean. Some people are straight edge and don't drink at all, don't smoke etc, I am currently 3 months smoke free and that's their choice but I think as long as it doesn't become a problem and distract you from the will of the force then it's okay in moderation.

Thanks

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15 Apr 2020 14:37 #351152 by Alethea Thompson
Jediism Explained: That's mostly because Opie's school of thought has the Jedi Path as more a philosophy than a spiritual endeavor. Whereas the focus of Daniel Jones is to develop a religious school of thought on the Jedi Path.

Concerning Drinking: I actually happen to be of the belief that controlled substances shouldn't be engaged by Jedi for the purpose of spiritual pursuits. I do believe that one should know their limits, and shouldn't drink with the intent to get drunk. But I disagree that it's a "high" you need to seek in your spiritual pursuits.

To me, refraining from these things makes you a better Jedi because you are more aware of the world around you, and can respond to it in kind. If you're seeking a high by connecting to the Force, you're stroking your ego, rather than seeking real spirituality. The Force is a source of information, strength, healing, peace and comfort. In many respects, it should be treated as sacred, not as something to be used for fun.

Now, I'm not saying that Daniel is saying it is. I'm just arguing against the use of the language "high".

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15 Apr 2020 17:10 - 15 Apr 2020 17:13 #351156 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic Jediism and drinking
Jediism isn't really 'anything' because Jediism is at any point a set of rules which we each decide.. we don't have religious texts, messiahs, dogma etc for the most part. TOTJO has its own set of expectations but many an argument here has begun due to the fact that nobody is obliged to agree with them.

Drink, don't drink. The choice has little actual relation to Jediism.

"Evil is always possible. And goodness is eternally difficult."
Last edit: 15 Apr 2020 17:13 by Edan.
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15 Apr 2020 17:34 #351157 by Kohadre
Replied by Kohadre on topic Jediism and drinking

Edan wrote: Jediism isn't really 'anything' because Jediism is at any point a set of rules which we each decide.. we don't have religious texts, messiahs, dogma etc for the most part. TOTJO has its own set of expectations but many an argument here has begun due to the fact that nobody is obliged to agree with them.

Drink, don't drink. The choice has little actual relation to Jediism.


I can't agree more with this.

Jediism, or at least TOTJO's branding of it is great because it focuses more on spirituality than religious governance. When churches and temples are focused more on governing a general populous (I,e The Vatican, Buddhist Sangha Council, šarīʿah law) you end up with religious wars, inquisitions, oppressive campaigns targeting education, extremism, etc.

It would seem that churches and religious institutions would be more focused on matters solely concerning the spirit, rather than physical / mental / emotional concerns; however is unfortunately largely not the case.

Concerns such as those should be handled by law enforcement, rehabilitative services, community councils, and volunteer workers; rather than institutions focused on matters of faith.

So long and thanks for all the fish
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16 Apr 2020 23:44 #351194 by
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As I respond to all of the posts, because holy crap I didn't expect this to be as decently sized as it is, thank you all for your thoughts and May the Force be with You.

Alethea: I think what he went by high isn't a literal high. I think he meant what Rob was getting at, as in it distracts you from the force. That being said I do think the wording was slightly off.

I think the reason it, not "bothered me" per say, but rather it tinged a little is because of the way it was written. My meaning being that it sounded like he was Stating what one should or shouldn't do, as opposed to simply giving advice on what we should or shouldn't do.

Then again that might just be my interpretation.

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17 Apr 2020 04:30 - 17 Apr 2020 04:38 #351202 by TheDude
Replied by TheDude on topic Jediism and drinking
Well... Obi Wan did order a drink in Attack of the Clones.
The way I see it, it's your body and your mind. Do what you want with them, but try to do so intelligently. If you understand the risks involved with consuming alcohol or anything else and you consent to take that risk, it is your free choice to do so insofar as it does not harm others. No one is going to kick you out of the Temple for having a beer. It may even be beneficial from time to time.
If you find that having a beer makes you and those around you have a better time at a party and doesn't harm anyone, then sure, have a beer. I'll tell you from experience, though, it's really hard to meditate effectively after your fourth or fifth serving!
If you've got a family history of alcoholism, it might not be the best idea. Ultimately it's your body, so invest in it in the ways you see appropriate and try to do so wisely.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to say that mind altering substances have been part of religious and spiritual systems for thousands of years. Whether it is the soma of India or the amanita mushrooms or, even to this day, ayahuasca in the Amazon, these substances have only relatively recently been regarded negatively by religious organizations and, particularly, Western religious organizations. They have served as a tool for personal growth for almost all of our ancestors and I, personally, find the taboo around them to be puzzling to say the least.

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Last edit: 17 Apr 2020 04:38 by TheDude.
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17 Apr 2020 06:23 - 17 Apr 2020 06:24 #351203 by
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In regards to Obi's drinking, IKR that was my first thought! Also as someone who has, completely hypothetically of course, "considered" doing LSD one time, it legit helped me get out of a six month depression phase. I still can't explain how but something reset in my brain so I actually enjoyed doing stuff and from then on I wanted to fix myself.

I can't drink beer though. I prefer either mead, to make me all warm inside, or a nice apple bourbon over rocks to ease into the night.
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17 Apr 2020 17:43 #351213 by Carlos.Martinez3
Ever know a Jedi to NOT accept a drink or a gift offered... it’s for me the “romance” of Jediism. Captain Kirk in any version of S.T. “always drinks what he is served” but it seems to never phase his decisions or the ability to be captain of a ship.
For me, when that happens - Statements like “as in Rome” can be a excuse for actions or or permission for promiscuous activity, or a way to create a equal mark in life where the worth of things is ”inherit.” My choice.

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17 Apr 2020 18:34 #351215 by Carlos.Martinez3
I’ll nurse a beer any day if it means creating a connection standing right next to you.

I’ll bum a cig just to get that time to hear what is inside.

I’ll pour you a dink any day upon request
* I am a Mixologist

I’ll also pay and call ya a cab or take ya home to your wife or hub or family.
I’ve carried wounded soldiers a few miles...
I’ll gladly carry any human who needs a lift.
I drink
I have levels
Jedi have levels or seasons. My hope is they also have a bit of character. Their own - regardless of influence.

Pastor Carlos.

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20 Apr 2020 19:20 #351294 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic Jediism and drinking
This is the review on Amazon voted as most helpful.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day though. I say unless you are abusing alcohol or caffeine to a level that's harming you, they are fine to use as you please. That goes for marijuana too. Next we need to discuss LSD, mushrooms, MDMA ,,, they all have a proper use.


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