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Consistancy
12 Jun 2018 16:06 #322831
by
Replied by on topic Consistancy
I respectfully and politely ask you to open Obi's thread again , we are not done yet....
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12 Jun 2018 16:25 #322832
by
Replied by on topic Consistancy
Locking aside, lets not loose the plot of this thread - I like where this is going: councillor is asking us as membership for ideas on managing rule infractions.
Your suggestion seems sound Ros, but I agree with Tris here saying there is an issue with timing.
Another aspect is single-sided approaches - someone may get a warning here for saying "Council are terrible they lock all our threads" ... That'd be single sided. But the simultaneous open discussion started about when and how we, as a community, think that thread locking should be used would be fairer.
Your suggestion seems sound Ros, but I agree with Tris here saying there is an issue with timing.
Another aspect is single-sided approaches - someone may get a warning here for saying "Council are terrible they lock all our threads" ... That'd be single sided. But the simultaneous open discussion started about when and how we, as a community, think that thread locking should be used would be fairer.
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12 Jun 2018 16:36 #322836
by Tellahane
-Simply Jedi
"Do or Do Not, There is No Talk!" -Me
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Replied by Tellahane on topic Consistancy
Remember that one time when people were jedi...
-Simply Jedi
"Do or Do Not, There is No Talk!" -Me
Tellahane's Initiate Journal
Tellahane's Apprenticeship Journal
Tellahane's Holocron Document
Tellahane's Knight Journal
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12 Jun 2018 16:41 #322837
by Brick
Replied by Brick on topic Consistancy
Apprentice to Maitre Chevalier Jedi
Alexandre Orion
Moderator | Welcome Team | IP Team
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- Knight Senan'The only contest any of us should be engaged in is with ourselves, to be better than yesterday'
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- Carlos.Martinez3
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12 Jun 2018 16:50 #322838
by Carlos.Martinez3
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Consistancy
Aww John Williams missed his cue...start over.
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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- OB1Shinobi
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12 Jun 2018 16:53 #322839
by OB1Shinobi
Its almost like youre suggesting people should be allowed to have the discussions which interest them without others interfering. Very interesting. Imagine if we applied that basic principle to the whole forum and not just this one topic.
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Consistancy
Twigga wrote: Locking aside, lets not loose the plot of this thread
Its almost like youre suggesting people should be allowed to have the discussions which interest them without others interfering. Very interesting. Imagine if we applied that basic principle to the whole forum and not just this one topic.
People are complicated.
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12 Jun 2018 16:54 #322840
by RosalynJ
Replied by RosalynJ on topic Consistancy
No it was not because I didn't like the thread. It was because a member brought it forward to my attention that it was against the guidelines in behavior unbecoming.
This is the problem. Every. Single. Time.
I don't have a problem with the thread or the conversation. When the thread was brought up in Council I was the one to ask to let it run.
Now I take too long. Now I'm not listening. Now this. Now that. I gave the reason. If someone wants to unlock it fine. As I say, I don't have a problem.
Every time we make a decision its not fair. Sorry. Its not going to be perfect.
This is the problem. Every. Single. Time.
I don't have a problem with the thread or the conversation. When the thread was brought up in Council I was the one to ask to let it run.
Now I take too long. Now I'm not listening. Now this. Now that. I gave the reason. If someone wants to unlock it fine. As I say, I don't have a problem.
Every time we make a decision its not fair. Sorry. Its not going to be perfect.
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12 Jun 2018 17:00 - 12 Jun 2018 17:08 #322841
by Nakis
Licensed Clergy Person
Replied by Nakis on topic Consistancy
My biggest advice is when punishing someone is to have their name, reason for punishment, punishment, clearly defined start date and end date, additional information about what and can not be done in the punishment, and the proper method of appeals. This should be posted publicly so everyone is aware and probably in the same place. If it's an issue in regards to confidential information, that information would naturally be sealed. The important thing is ensuring people know who, what, when, where, and why. This prevents accusations of strong arming or retaliation by higher ups against others.
I'm going to post the Code of Conduct for Amtgard
This allows the leaders of a group to say "Bob is suspended from 6/1/2018 to 9/1/2018 for violation of code 3" without going into too many details.
This is an example of a notice of action that is posted in a public location for Amtgard, the rules for how you appeal is usually sent via PM with the rest of the message:
I'm going to post the Code of Conduct for Amtgard
Warning: Spoiler!
Amtgard strives to maintain a fun, friendly, welcoming environment for mature players. As such the following behaviors are not acceptable and may lead to ban from combat or attending:
1. Speech that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their property or safety
2. Physical violence outside of the normal bounds of combat conduct
3. Sexual harassment or inappropriate sexual contact
4. Theft or willful destruction of other peoples property
5. Repeated unwillingness to follow game rules
6. Creating a hostile environment detrimental to the enjoyment of the group as a whole
The Monarch, with the joint agreement of either the Prime Minister or the Guildmaster of Reeves, may ban a player from their group (and subgroups) for any of the reasons including, but not limited to, the list above at their discretion for any amount of time they feel appropriate. Any Monarch, with the joint agreement of either the Prime Minister or the Guildmaster of Reeves, may end a ban on a player at any time with the exception that a park Monarch may not overturn a ban instituted at the Kingdom level.
Any Kingdom level ban placed by a player’s Kingdom of residence for items 2 or 3 is automatically extended to all Kingdoms and their Subgroups. It is the responsibility of the Monarch enacting the ban to notify the Kingdoms using the Circle of Monarchs communication tools. Any Kingdom Monarch, with the joint agreement of either the Prime Minister or the Guildmaster of Reeves, may exempt their Kingdom from this extension by choosing to assume responsibility for the banned player and allowing the banned player to engage in Amtgard activities within their Kingdom and Subgroups. In doing so, that Monarch is stating
hat they believe the following is true:
1. The banned player adds no additional threat to the safety of the players in this Kingdom or its Subgroups
2. The presence of the banned player will not create a hostile or unwelcoming environment for other players attending functions of this Kingdom or its Subgroups related to the nature of the ban
3. There is a compelling reason that having the banned player participate in the functions of this Kingdom and its Subgroups is beneficial to the functioning of those same groups
1. Speech that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their property or safety
2. Physical violence outside of the normal bounds of combat conduct
3. Sexual harassment or inappropriate sexual contact
4. Theft or willful destruction of other peoples property
5. Repeated unwillingness to follow game rules
6. Creating a hostile environment detrimental to the enjoyment of the group as a whole
The Monarch, with the joint agreement of either the Prime Minister or the Guildmaster of Reeves, may ban a player from their group (and subgroups) for any of the reasons including, but not limited to, the list above at their discretion for any amount of time they feel appropriate. Any Monarch, with the joint agreement of either the Prime Minister or the Guildmaster of Reeves, may end a ban on a player at any time with the exception that a park Monarch may not overturn a ban instituted at the Kingdom level.
Any Kingdom level ban placed by a player’s Kingdom of residence for items 2 or 3 is automatically extended to all Kingdoms and their Subgroups. It is the responsibility of the Monarch enacting the ban to notify the Kingdoms using the Circle of Monarchs communication tools. Any Kingdom Monarch, with the joint agreement of either the Prime Minister or the Guildmaster of Reeves, may exempt their Kingdom from this extension by choosing to assume responsibility for the banned player and allowing the banned player to engage in Amtgard activities within their Kingdom and Subgroups. In doing so, that Monarch is stating
hat they believe the following is true:
1. The banned player adds no additional threat to the safety of the players in this Kingdom or its Subgroups
2. The presence of the banned player will not create a hostile or unwelcoming environment for other players attending functions of this Kingdom or its Subgroups related to the nature of the ban
3. There is a compelling reason that having the banned player participate in the functions of this Kingdom and its Subgroups is beneficial to the functioning of those same groups
This allows the leaders of a group to say "Bob is suspended from 6/1/2018 to 9/1/2018 for violation of code 3" without going into too many details.
This is an example of a notice of action that is posted in a public location for Amtgard, the rules for how you appeal is usually sent via PM with the rest of the message:
Warning: Spoiler!
In light of occurrences at the Northern Lights Kingdom Level Event in Mithril Hills 22 October 2017, and with the agreement of myself, NL Prime Minister XXXX, and NL Guildmaster of Reeves (XXXX), we hereby suspend XXXX from attending events within the borders of Northern Lights for a period of six months beginning on 22 October 2017 and ending on 22 April 2018, for violations of the Code of Conduct Items 1 and 5. This triggers neither the treaty nor the COC amendment, but is merely for your notice. This type of behavior is not acceptable. We hope that he returns to us a calmer, wiser, and happier person.
Licensed Clergy Person
Last edit: 12 Jun 2018 17:08 by Nakis.
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12 Jun 2018 19:20 #322847
by
Replied by on topic Consistancy
I like the idea of looking to other organisations for how they handle these issues Nakis, and I also think it solves many problems that can come from having to hunt down a mod to ask for details on what happened with one of your temple buddies. It prevents mods having to reply the same to 30 different enquirers. I approve; but I don't personally believe in retributive (punishment based) justice - I'm a restorative/rehabilitation girl...
Obi, I'm not sure I 100% understood your response; but there was an opportunity in the second paragraph of my response for someone to start this thread . Under the current decisions/guidelines for when we, as a community, can lock threads, your thread fell into that category. Maybe those guidelines aren't the ones we want to be using any more.
I liked your thread. I think lots of people can appreciate your thread. It brought up lots of different ideas about inconsistencies and how we interact in the temple. I think a lot of different threads could be started out of it to clear up inconsistencies, and they will be further reaching, as they won't just be about one incidence focusing on one individual.
Obi, I'm not sure I 100% understood your response; but there was an opportunity in the second paragraph of my response for someone to start this thread . Under the current decisions/guidelines for when we, as a community, can lock threads, your thread fell into that category. Maybe those guidelines aren't the ones we want to be using any more.
I liked your thread. I think lots of people can appreciate your thread. It brought up lots of different ideas about inconsistencies and how we interact in the temple. I think a lot of different threads could be started out of it to clear up inconsistencies, and they will be further reaching, as they won't just be about one incidence focusing on one individual.
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12 Jun 2018 19:37 - 12 Jun 2018 19:39 #322849
by Nakis
Licensed Clergy Person
Replied by Nakis on topic Consistancy
I wrote specifically about punishment to address community concerns about awareness, time frames, transparency, and appeals. In the spoiler below is my stance on rehabilitation/punishment :laugh:
Warning: Spoiler!
Just to annotate my position real fast on that, to ensure I am understood what I say when I mean "punishment," I feel that you must always offer the awareness, ability, and chance to correct an issue. Outside of extreme circumstances, people should be given the chance to fix the situation. How this happens generally is up to the organization. I'm a fan of warnings that indicate what is wrong, why it is wrong, and some suggestions on how to fix it. But, I also acknowledge that if they repeatedly do the thing they were told not to do, they clearly aren't listening or are choosing to ignore you, in which case there is a reminder that there is a community they belong to and if they do not play by community rules, they can go elsewhere. There is a difference between offering them a chance to improve and enabling someone. Always offer correction first and if that doesn't work after the first few times, then something else needs to be done to stop the disruptive behavior. Sometimes people need an enforced cool down period. All corrective actions, including removals, must be focused on uplifting someone to help them be a better part of the community.
Licensed Clergy Person
Last edit: 12 Jun 2018 19:39 by Nakis.
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