Spiritual college

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19 May 2018 18:46 - 19 May 2018 18:47 #321804 by Yabuturtle
Replied by Yabuturtle on topic Spiritual college
I understand. I know there are others dedicated to it but I have never seen one that was as big as Oxford or other colleges. Most of them are online and the few physical schools that are out there are rather small. Not enough to where people can live in it, like you can with a college.

Sometimes geography has something to do with it. Minnesota was one of the few I had in mind, because there are a lot of unitarian and pagan groups ect. that are over there. Of course this doesn't apply to those. Really anyone of any faith such as Jedi, Sufi, Shintoist ect can be a part of it. Some may gloss over the small schools because it is small. But if it was larger, people may have taken interest in it. I can see the problem of people may not trusting it or think it's fake. That's why I'd want to focus on a concentrated group so if they follow others may follow out of interest.

I often wonder what the Jedi demographic was. I know some others probably already made a thread, but I often wondered if they were really scattered or there was a concentration of them somewhere.
Last edit: 19 May 2018 18:47 by Yabuturtle.

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20 May 2018 00:52 #321812 by Neaj Pa Bol
Replied by Neaj Pa Bol on topic Spiritual college
We do have Wiccan , Magik/Magic, etc., items in our Pagan studies Area in the Special Interest Groups section. Anything you wish to add or help with for the library in this area would be fantastic... Kit from our Council is the new Pagan SIG Advisor, would imagine she would welcome teachings, etc...


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20 May 2018 18:31 - 20 May 2018 18:35 #321831 by Manami
Replied by Manami on topic Spiritual college
There has been a movement within academia to examine esoteric studies, primarily in terms of its historical practices, movements, development, and influence on culture, with programs at several large and well-established universities (University of Amsterdam has the best, imo). While it is a scholarly discipline, there are often dedicated practitioners scattered within it. As for why there's not more out there, "Esotericism and the Academy: Rejected Knowledge in Western Culture" by Wouter J. Hanegraaff has a good historical analysis of how post-Enlightenment Western scholars distanced from touching the subject even as it remained a vital force in most cultures (as it still is, whether there is evidence of the practices leading to beneficial outcomes or not.)

Having spent a good chunk of my life as both practitioner and academic, though, I do agree that esotericism is too small of an interest group to support having any kind of substantial college on its own. I think having a dedicated training & teaching facility will always be a dream for many of us who see what could be done with the legacy, but I really don't see it ever becoming more than a dream which at best inspires local or small private organization. One of the primary reasons is that "magick" has had to redefine itself as more of a cognitive art (related to communication and change-making) as technology has become able to do all that was historically promised by esoteric arts more easily and efficiently through the manipulation of natural forces. (There's also been some great work done on this out of the Esoteric Studies academic field). Ancient magicians were motivated by the desire of being able to do miracles that we can now take for granted, leaving few areas where the human mind has an advantage over machines. So it's not really surprising that these arts have become more internally-focused now (and in my experience, that has still been a very useful thing), but a lot of people are attracted more by the myth and lose interest when it's not as "fun" as they'd imagined.

And based on what I saw in my time in the field, it's very rare to encounter the tiny fraction of people with the interest who actually have the intention and will (not to mention time and resources) to dedicate themselves to anything beyond just reading and writing papers. I've watched a small full-time/live-in training group die out over the last decade because there were not enough new students coming in to replace those who had to move out due to life changes (such as our great competitors, Marriage and Career, LOL). It takes a massive amount of effort and sacrifice to do it even on a very small scale. However, the development of the Esoteric Studies interdisciplinary field within the existing universities, and its growth as an area of legitimate scholarly investigation, has been a very worthwhile (and enjoyable) alternative, for me.

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."
Last edit: 20 May 2018 18:35 by Manami. Reason: clarification
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21 May 2018 00:31 - 21 May 2018 00:42 #321835 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Spiritual college
It could be argued this is where the medical field and industries came from..... as I guess its an economic question.

It's relationship to time is probably the weakest bit of it. Delayed gratification is outside the forces which people relate to 'progress', for people are too busy satisfying themselves and grasping at change for changes sake. And, I think progress take time to grow it. The difference between change and progress in this context would be that change is unsupported and temporary (its greater if its more different then where it came from), while progress has foundation to build upon (its greater if its functionally related to where it came from)... as a way to understand my point (rather then pretending to be some hard definition). And so mass production probably allows too many failures to enter this topic as process. But it wouldn't be impossible I don't think, just expensive and not very useful to society. Any concept of mass production would have to be less about increasing the process output and rather be trying to systematize the inputs and flow to create a better result. Obviously no-one will support something which is breaking people or not delivering results... in a rushed and rough process. But what is the 'worth' of the end product, to the individual, to society, and to their capacity to survive and function!??

Maybe along the lines of what some others have said, a spiritual path as a product, doesn't seem to quite offer enough to support its existence and growth within an economic system. It's not really a trade as such, for example.... it doesn't create a product, but rather it could be said to deliver a service capability - so the service provided needs to be assessed for its worth to the economic system in terms of its use to people spending time to develop skill in it. What does it offer, the ability to teach others? If all your students are becoming teachers, then you're going to end up with a lot of teachers fast, and all selling the same 'service'. You can see how the supply and demand balance would quickly become lopsided if the training was easy or short. Mental health is one area it could offer some useful role in society and therefore provide some way for ones time to remain in touch for the economy - but that has risks and difficulties because again, breaking things costs money, and breaking people costs more then money. Physical health in the same way, and the science of it is basically within the field of medical and pharmaceutical sciences already.

As learning something which does not pay your taxes, put a roof over your head or food on your plate needs to be able to be managed alongside survival and living. So if its easy and fast, you get too many teachers and if its long and hard you need to survive in the meantime or be worth it in the end to redress being slower then the economy while learning.

TLDR; It''s true time is money but I'd also suggest that timing is wealth, and since there is not much business from spirituality other then teaching it to others, the demand of any marketable product of it quickly exceeds demand for it if too many sellers enter the market... killing its usefulness for anything other then a personal path. Which is why sects emerge because each seller needs to create an appearance of having a unique product to have any capacity to create a stream of demand to themselves, and the more this happens the more superficial the whole lot becomes.

Add; But its not impossible, just really expensive and a bit of a money pit I'd imagine... you'd have plenty of passionate people but..... it takes more then that to compete at the level of well run businesses (be it profit or non-profit). So how do non-profit's do it... donations I suppose, and that probably means appealing to the ideology of benefactors. What do the rich want to donate to.... seems to be usually health research and improving education. But then zany pastors preaching good vibes on peoples stim sets sometimes seem to be able to get massively rich from donations, but they are more like cults and I'd never advocate that approach.

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Last edit: 21 May 2018 00:42 by Adder.
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21 May 2018 17:10 #321855 by Yabuturtle
Replied by Yabuturtle on topic Spiritual college
I definitely get where people are coming from. It would be no doubt expensive. Many beliefs and religions started of small. Many were cults in the beginning and then became world religions. Of course it isn't really pagan studies so much as it is esoteric which is a wider range and geography will something to do with it. It would do better in a place with a higher concentration of pagans as opposed to catholic or protestant areas like Rhode Island or Mississippi. Just as if one wishes to built a Jedi temple, it would be preferable to do it in England than Laos.

It may not seem as useful, but it cannot be considered useful to study if people don't even know it exists or it is capable. If one knew it was possible to do these things, they may flock towards it.

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22 May 2018 19:14 #321884 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic Spiritual college
I honestly believe that these types of schools aren't promoted by design. I mean schools that study dealing with the non"material" inhabitants of other dimensions. Also, the study of psyscho-kinesiology, "laying of hands", and other forms of energy-work..

It's not something that they want to share, nor should they.. at least not irresponsibly.. as for us, and the fact that it's all unified in "The Force" anyway, we should study objectively and share with practicality.. when truly needed..

Edgar Cayce is a good example. The selfish intent of those he wanted to genuinely help began to affect his health. So there's that. Then, in a way, you could be robbing people of the trail they're needing to pass..or just become society's bandaid on a festering wound.. or the fame and notoriety could corrupt us.. So personally, I would be cautious on how we use the knowledge we would gain from study.. trying to prove it to the world is pointless to me.. It will eventually prove itself anyway..

"Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem"
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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04 Jun 2018 01:18 #322289 by Alethea Thompson
Replied by Alethea Thompson on topic Spiritual college
Just something to put out there:

Cherry Hill Seminary is a Pagan College that also certifies in things like "Pastoral Counseling" (with the Pagan aim, rather than Christian).

For a long time Sacred Well Congregation also ran a sort of Apprenticeship which could get you ordained as a Gardnerian Wicca.

There ARE schools out there, you just have to know what you're looking for.

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04 Jun 2018 17:27 #322306 by Yabuturtle
Replied by Yabuturtle on topic Spiritual college
There are, just not the ones I am looking for. Most schools are online and the ones that aren't are small schools and even then a lot of the courses are online, which is not bad. In my first post, it shows a big college, and I never saw an esoteric school that big, one where you can actually live in it.

Mine would be more eclectic, not just pagan studies or divinity, but metal working, wand making, martial arts, meditative styles, shamanism, mysticism, alchemy, ect. one can be a Jedi, Sufi, Kabbalist ect.

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