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Vulcans versus Romulans - Jedi or Sith?
6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #312455
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Vulcans versus Romulans - Jedi or Sith? was created by
So I was contemplating something the other day and a thought struck me. I began to think about how similar the Vulcan and Romulan races from Star Trek might be in relation to the Jedi and the Sith. I thought it might be a fun exercise to ask some questions to everyone about your thoughts on the similarities and differences you might see as well. In the hidden text below are descriptions of the Vulcan and the Romulan races and their basic philosophies.
If you like, make replies here on the following questions:
1. If you had to choose a race, either Vulcan or Romulan, which one would you choose to represent and why?
2. Why not the other? Or would you combine aspects of both and if so why?
3. What similarities do you see between these two races and the Jedi and Sith? What differences?[/li]
If you like, make replies here on the following questions:
1. If you had to choose a race, either Vulcan or Romulan, which one would you choose to represent and why?
2. Why not the other? Or would you combine aspects of both and if so why?
3. What similarities do you see between these two races and the Jedi and Sith? What differences?[/li]
Warning: Spoiler!
The Vulcan and Romulan Races developed out of one species that evolved on Vulcan. However, over time, each race adopted vastly differing philosophical worldviews. The split between the races came at a time of conflict on Vulcan when an alien species attempted to invade their once shared home world. During this time Surak, one of Vulcans greatest philosopher’s, emerged and began teaching principles of life based on pacifism, emotional control and logic. One of Surak’s former students, a poet named S'task, opposed Surak and took up an argument that favored violent resistance, passion and strength. The resultant struggle ending in a nuclear civil war and the subsequent division of the species when the followers of S’task left the planet and became known as the Romulan race.
VULCANS
Vulcans center their lives on the concept of logic. The highest objective of this philosophy is the strict control of all emotion. They believe this control allows them to always make the most rational decisions possible and thus rendering them a purely cogent being. This difficult task is attained through routine meditation, constant discipline and physical training. Vulcans embrace cultural and racial diversity and espouse a pacifist philosophy, going so far as to follow strict vegan diets to avoid killing even non-sentient animals. Vulcans believe that the needs of a very large group should go before the needs of a very small group or any individual.
However Vulcans also believe that complete dedication to logic could allow for weakness and frailty to arise and endanger them. Because of this Vulcans continue to maintain ceremonies dedicated to ancient religious beliefs. Practices such as the kahs-wan, a rite of passage in which one must survive alone in the wilderness for ten days without food, water, or weapons or the Pon Farr, a mating ritual in which the veneer of logic is stripped away and replaced with maddening passions, were preserved. Many Vulcans also continued some form of dedication to their ancient gods, including ritual pilgrimages
ROMULANS
In every way the opposite of the logical and "cold" Vulcans, the Romulans lack the rigorous mental disciplines developed by the followers of Surak. Romulans do not hide their emotions. They tend to revel in them, capable of both intense compassion and deep loving devotion but also fanatical ferocity and viciousness. They are characterized as passionate, cunning, and opportunistic. The Romulans do not undergo the effects of Pon farr, due to the fact they don’t repress their normal sexual urges. Like the Vulcans, The Romulan’s gave up unrestrained violence as a way of life. However, in the case of the Romulans, this was replaced with a controlled deviousness.
As a species, the Romulans as generally thought of as treacherous. But they are actually quite honorable as a species and this reputation stems from their philosophy of accomplishment at all cost. Part of this Romulan behavior is influenced by the belief in “D'era” which is the source of the Romulan concept of honor. This is not purely a warrior-like concept but also a reflection of accomplishments made by the individual in relation to self, family and Empire. They celebrate rather than repress their instinctual, passionate emotions and consider defending the Romulan Empire and their own personal honor of foremost importance.
Part of this belief includes the concept of "Final Honor" which is something that requires a Romulan to sacrifice their life before their honor is taken from them. This includes never being captured in battle and fearing disgrace over death. Romulan’s believe they are the caretakers of the universe and in this have a complete loyalty to their race as a whole. To them there is no greater honor than to die in service to their nation. This shared belief is known to the Romulan’s as "the Romulan path to glory." As well, military service and its accompanying rank are decisive factors in determining social eminence. The Romulan’s consider the Vulcans to have strayed away from the warrior teachings of D'Era.
VULCANS
Vulcans center their lives on the concept of logic. The highest objective of this philosophy is the strict control of all emotion. They believe this control allows them to always make the most rational decisions possible and thus rendering them a purely cogent being. This difficult task is attained through routine meditation, constant discipline and physical training. Vulcans embrace cultural and racial diversity and espouse a pacifist philosophy, going so far as to follow strict vegan diets to avoid killing even non-sentient animals. Vulcans believe that the needs of a very large group should go before the needs of a very small group or any individual.
However Vulcans also believe that complete dedication to logic could allow for weakness and frailty to arise and endanger them. Because of this Vulcans continue to maintain ceremonies dedicated to ancient religious beliefs. Practices such as the kahs-wan, a rite of passage in which one must survive alone in the wilderness for ten days without food, water, or weapons or the Pon Farr, a mating ritual in which the veneer of logic is stripped away and replaced with maddening passions, were preserved. Many Vulcans also continued some form of dedication to their ancient gods, including ritual pilgrimages
ROMULANS
In every way the opposite of the logical and "cold" Vulcans, the Romulans lack the rigorous mental disciplines developed by the followers of Surak. Romulans do not hide their emotions. They tend to revel in them, capable of both intense compassion and deep loving devotion but also fanatical ferocity and viciousness. They are characterized as passionate, cunning, and opportunistic. The Romulans do not undergo the effects of Pon farr, due to the fact they don’t repress their normal sexual urges. Like the Vulcans, The Romulan’s gave up unrestrained violence as a way of life. However, in the case of the Romulans, this was replaced with a controlled deviousness.
As a species, the Romulans as generally thought of as treacherous. But they are actually quite honorable as a species and this reputation stems from their philosophy of accomplishment at all cost. Part of this Romulan behavior is influenced by the belief in “D'era” which is the source of the Romulan concept of honor. This is not purely a warrior-like concept but also a reflection of accomplishments made by the individual in relation to self, family and Empire. They celebrate rather than repress their instinctual, passionate emotions and consider defending the Romulan Empire and their own personal honor of foremost importance.
Part of this belief includes the concept of "Final Honor" which is something that requires a Romulan to sacrifice their life before their honor is taken from them. This includes never being captured in battle and fearing disgrace over death. Romulan’s believe they are the caretakers of the universe and in this have a complete loyalty to their race as a whole. To them there is no greater honor than to die in service to their nation. This shared belief is known to the Romulan’s as "the Romulan path to glory." As well, military service and its accompanying rank are decisive factors in determining social eminence. The Romulan’s consider the Vulcans to have strayed away from the warrior teachings of D'Era.
Last edit: 6 years 3 months ago by .
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6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #312476
by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Vulcans versus Romulans - Jedi or Sith?
Duh, got my Klingon and Romulan mixed up :S
Dunno about Romulans, but Klingons is easy. Anyway, edited original to make sense..... Klingon v Sith = gorging v feeding. I need to watch more of it, but I'm not sure the Klingon's have enough guts to make the self sacrifices required to achieve the type of progress the Sith seek. As I think they think too highly of themselves as is, and instead prefer to risk it all on haphazard plundering ie greed and factionalism, while a Sith might be defined as instead using guile.
The difference between the Jedi and Vulcans might perhaps be that the Jedi relate to the Force through feeling, using logic as a scaffold to distribute energy into purpose - something the Sith do also but with different shaped scaffolding ie slightly less logic to use feelings more eg emotions).
Dunno about Romulans, but Klingons is easy. Anyway, edited original to make sense..... Klingon v Sith = gorging v feeding. I need to watch more of it, but I'm not sure the Klingon's have enough guts to make the self sacrifices required to achieve the type of progress the Sith seek. As I think they think too highly of themselves as is, and instead prefer to risk it all on haphazard plundering ie greed and factionalism, while a Sith might be defined as instead using guile.
The difference between the Jedi and Vulcans might perhaps be that the Jedi relate to the Force through feeling, using logic as a scaffold to distribute energy into purpose - something the Sith do also but with different shaped scaffolding ie slightly less logic to use feelings more eg emotions).
Last edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Adder.
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6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #312486
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Replied by on topic Vulcans versus Romulans - Jedi or Sith?
While both races have their strengths and weaknesses, I would have to choose Vulcan. During the show and movies Romulans have showed a proclivity for isolationism and conflict. They cause unnecessary death and destruction, though this could be because of that isolationist view. When you remove your social circle from the realms of others, you lose sight of their humanity (for lack of better word) and worth. I wouldn’t want to be that flippant with the lives of others.
The Vulcans aren't perfect though. Historically they too have catered some isolationist views. Their biggest folly is of course hubris. It’s very common for a Vulcan to view other races as inferior, even if they still treat them with respect. This hindered diplomatic relations for quite some time.
Something of the Romulans that I admire though is their technological advancement. With a limited resource pool they, as a race, have a huge disadvantage in terms of research and development. Yet they are constantly pushing the limits of what science can do. This shows a great discipline in efficiency, sacrifice, and priority.
Edit:
A little off subject but I once read a comparison of Vulcan/Romulans with Timelords/Daleks. It's interesting to see similar beliefs/archs displayed through very different stories.
The Vulcans aren't perfect though. Historically they too have catered some isolationist views. Their biggest folly is of course hubris. It’s very common for a Vulcan to view other races as inferior, even if they still treat them with respect. This hindered diplomatic relations for quite some time.
Something of the Romulans that I admire though is their technological advancement. With a limited resource pool they, as a race, have a huge disadvantage in terms of research and development. Yet they are constantly pushing the limits of what science can do. This shows a great discipline in efficiency, sacrifice, and priority.
Edit:
A little off subject but I once read a comparison of Vulcan/Romulans with Timelords/Daleks. It's interesting to see similar beliefs/archs displayed through very different stories.
Last edit: 6 years 3 months ago by .
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6 years 3 months ago #312492
by Manu
The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
Replied by Manu on topic Vulcans versus Romulans - Jedi or Sith?
I am not very acquainted with Star Trek, but based on the descriptions, I'd have to go for Romulan. The whole repressing sexual urges doesn't sit well with me.
The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
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6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #312505
by OB1Shinobi
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Vulcans versus Romulans - Jedi or Sith?
Blasphemy considering the setting but ST was x100 better writing (and acting) that SW.
And im gonna go with Vulcans cause i like being smart, and the crazy sex orgies sound dope
EDIT
I mis-remembered, there are no orgies
But the irony of the original comment is unintentionally hilarious, so i will leave it. Perhaps it was the Force punishing me lol.
And im gonna go with Vulcans cause i like being smart, and the crazy sex orgies sound dope
EDIT
I mis-remembered, there are no orgies
But the irony of the original comment is unintentionally hilarious, so i will leave it. Perhaps it was the Force punishing me lol.
People are complicated.
Last edit: 6 years 3 months ago by OB1Shinobi.
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6 years 3 months ago #312524
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Replied by on topic Vulcans versus Romulans - Jedi or Sith?
@Adder, yes you are right, the Klingons are the galactic “bulls in the china shop”. They are very much a warrior society that is based on feudalism and focuses on conquest. That’s why I picked the Romulans. Even though they appear similar to Klingons on the surface they are actually quite different. Theirs is not a military society but one more of master and slave morality. They value accomplishment over failure in any aspect of life and those that can achieve no matter the cost are revered. Because of this they have no qualms with deviousness and subterfuge.
@JLspinner, yes the Romulans are very much isolationists. They believe in the superiority of their own race over others and therefore do not like to associate with so called lesser races. They believe that they have been chosen as the caretakers (rulers) of the entire universe by divine decree. Vulcans on the other hand are very much about interracial diversity so for them it’s not about hubris in their belief that their race is superior. However they do look down on others that lack logic. They believe the embracing of emotion is beneath them.
@Manu, between the Jedi and the Sith which do you more closely identify with?
@OB1, Well I have never been one to stand on tradition! , yea no orgies but you get to revel in sexual craziness!... but only once every 7 years…
@JLspinner, yes the Romulans are very much isolationists. They believe in the superiority of their own race over others and therefore do not like to associate with so called lesser races. They believe that they have been chosen as the caretakers (rulers) of the entire universe by divine decree. Vulcans on the other hand are very much about interracial diversity so for them it’s not about hubris in their belief that their race is superior. However they do look down on others that lack logic. They believe the embracing of emotion is beneath them.
@Manu, between the Jedi and the Sith which do you more closely identify with?
@OB1, Well I have never been one to stand on tradition! , yea no orgies but you get to revel in sexual craziness!... but only once every 7 years…
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6 years 3 months ago #312528
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Replied by on topic Vulcans versus Romulans - Jedi or Sith?
If I'm honest with myself, Romulan. I didn't have to reflect very much to come to that conclusion, simply because I've had to work on not letting my emotions get the better of my actions, and I tend to take action with singleminded dedication to the task (when I'm not getting distracted).
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6 years 3 months ago - 6 years 3 months ago #312530
by Zenchi
Replied by Zenchi on topic Vulcans versus Romulans - Jedi or Sith?
Human, probably raised by Vulcans, but fluent in Klingon and we'll versed in their traditions...
The other races are too extreme in their perspectives for my taste personally...
The other races are too extreme in their perspectives for my taste personally...
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Last edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Zenchi.
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6 years 3 months ago #312533
by Manu
I have not read the Legends books, so going off the movies, I most closely identify with ROTJ Luke Skywalker (a bit unsure of myself at times, whiny - but not as much as the previous movies - capable of great anger if you mess with my family, but in general calm and collected).
The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
Replied by Manu on topic Vulcans versus Romulans - Jedi or Sith?
Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: @Manu, between the Jedi and the Sith which do you more closely identify with?
I have not read the Legends books, so going off the movies, I most closely identify with ROTJ Luke Skywalker (a bit unsure of myself at times, whiny - but not as much as the previous movies - capable of great anger if you mess with my family, but in general calm and collected).
The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
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6 years 2 months ago #312878
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Replied by on topic Vulcans versus Romulans - Jedi or Sith?
I would be Spock with a dash of Kirk.
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