Do you ever think...

I find this a very interesting discussion keep it going, but I'm going to throw in a weird kind of wrench.

So I like to do self-study, exploration type things when it comes to Jediism, and I've spent time doing the light side thing, I spent time doing the grey jedi thing, I've spent time doing my own thing. Something I'm working on writing a decent essay about was originally on a concept called "meditation in moments".

The basic concept of meditation in moments comes from my apprenticeship journal but basically the idea is recognizing moments in your daily life where you can find a brief moment to go into a short term meditative trance kind of situation, where you can literally take a few seconds to a minute and get refreshed if you know to recognize it and "flow" with it. Some more obvious situations are like, if you have been inside most of the day and you step outside after a day of work and its a perfect 70 degrees light wind beautiful day, that transition from central stuffy air to the outside has an effect and if you take a moment when you see that to breathe in and out as you would in a meditation you can take advantage of those moments.

Working on that has lead me down to a new "epiphany" I guess where it's not just "moments" but "transitions". See I don't really see things as good and bad, white or black, light and dark, I don't personally believe they exist because they are subjective at best. Things don't balance per say for me they transition, they move to where they need to move to. Water goes down hill, but it can also go up with the right conditions, most importantly water moves because it has somewhere to move to. All parts of life around us including our bodies and its chemistry does the same thing, down to how oxygen and CO2 exchanges and moves around and works its way in and out of our bodies. To me the force as we describe it currently is more about the movement, and the exchange, the transition from indoors to outdoors, the flow of water, movement of the air, it's in those movements that we connect to our environment. Even in meditation while focusing on bowls, sounds, aum's etc I read in one book that a "master" in meditation needs not any trinkets or any of these things they need only their breathe, for that is with them at all times all day. Well its the movement of the breathe that is the key part of it, the senses that you focus on as the air moves in, and out, the focus of that transition, that movement. My experience with some very basic Tai Chi and meditation in movement helped me kind of connect those two concepts together. I don't believe in balance simply in a more general something must go from point a to point b because both points exist. I don't question why, I just see that it is, and there for grow on it.

Anyway just to throw out a different perspective out there, I'll post my essay when I feel I'm done with it, I'm also submitting it to the temple book project when its done as well.

I do have to say, most of my viewpoint and what led me to Potentium was study of Now and Flow (stemming from your Holocron in the library no less). It comes with the moment. What is the good thing to do at this moment? and then at this moment? Just continuing this balancing flow.

Wow thank You Tellahane I think You have something very powerful going on here. You take as an example a very obvious transitional state from a "central stuffy air to the outside" but of course it can be used when a conversation finishes, when the sun sets and even as you say between each breath. I am gonna add it to my practice immediately and observe the results.

Manu wrote: Look! Another multi-page post where we get into heated argument over semantics! :silly:

I'll address the questions from the OP:

ནའдհдཀ༑ནკ wrote: Have you ever considered that the world we live in is in a state of balance? Media shows us all the darkness that would set to unbalance us, but that there are equally as many good and just things happening that are not publicized in the same manner?

While I agree that the media paint a very ugly picture of the world, and leaves out the good, I don't see why you conflate media perception with "balance", nor do I really understand what you mean by it. Furthermore, the world we don't see includes much darker, heinous atrocities that are completely left out of mainstream media, including but not limited to: human trafficking, mass genocide, child pornography networks (deep web). It may give us warm tingly feelings to remember the good stuff (in fact, it's good to remember what is still worth defending). But it's not helpful to use this beautiful image as a curtain to cover the window looking out into its ugliness.

ནའдհдཀ༑ནკ wrote: Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

I like this quote, and to a degree it is true. Perception however does not negate fact. An optimist might think "it's a beautiful cool day" while the pessimist says "damn, I hate this cold weather". But put both of them in Antartica and no amount of feeling good will save them from frostbite.

ནའдհдཀ༑ནკ wrote: Sometimes I wonder that all the effort to make something better will only be met with something more worse to keep the force in balance.

Well, we might as well give up on all pursuits of science, medicine, education and technological advancement. Hey, it's not like we've greatly reduced extreme poverty and the rate of infant death, right?

"Balance" strikes me as a meaningless word in this particular context (rephrase: please tell me more about what it means to you, personally, in order to understand it). I see danger, destruction, death... I face it. And I will continue to face it, despite the fact that it will eventually kill me.

Valar Morghulis. Valar Dohaeris.

Interesting how you approach this discussions I must say. I suggest that we live in a state of balance. Constant good and evil all around us.

As to your comment on Antarctica, would the threat of frostbite really change ones perception of beauty, or would one just take more defensive measures to be able to observe that beauty?

I think balance is a key term to our lives. Calmness is a balance between fear and jubilation. Indulging, negating, overreacting and not reacting are luxuries not a state anyone should strive for.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

ནའдհдཀ༑ནკ wrote: STOP AND REVIEW

Take a moment to look back at the messages here. Where has this topic taken you?

Emotion, point of view, personal feelings, past experiences, your own interpretation.

Are you right or wrong? Is this about the universe, the world, or the person? Did anyone have the true answer? Would anyone know the truth if it was here?

I'm often curious how discussions go especially if/when someone gets offended. Why were you offended and what action did you take to that offense?

Life is what it is, we are what we are in it.

This discussion is not about right or wrong. It never was nor should it ever be when it comes to philosophy. Its about the discussion. Trying to turn truth into an absolute when it comes to these things is an exercise in futility because we can never know absolute truth. These things are not designed to better understand the world, they are designed to better understand our own self.

As for offense... or heated argument as Manu says, I would disagree. There was no offense nor heated argument. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and I believe others did as well. People are so quick to read more into the things I say that not most times. I am an intense person and I have a passion for life and discussions of these sorts. If you interpret that as offensive I'm sorry but that's who I am. take or leave it.

No, this discussions was about ones self. What I asked was for you to evaluate yourself in this discussion. Meditate on what you went through in this discussion. This was not a judgement against anyone or perception on anything but yourself.

I have been very enlightened by many of the comments here and appreciate everyone's involvement in the discussion.

@Kyrin : I checked the ethymology of equilibrium and balance and I am not sure but they kind of look the same to me even if i get what you mean that balance is a neverending movement towards chaos and equilibrium is a state of stillness right? You know it is funny because i am trying to write a book these years and my current hypothesis is that existence is relative and absolute whereas non existence is only relative. So, suspecting its absolute nature, existence, in its relative state has to accept all the non existence inside itself to become absolute and acheive its destiny. The acceptance of non existence divides existence in the image of the universe expanding. When the existence has accepted all the non existence inside itself it becomes non existence, there is nothing left. But then non existence notice the conscience is still there (i cant go into details here it would be too long) and recognizes itself as existence through conscience. As there is nothing else it is absolute but the cycle starts again. Really I simplified a lot and I know many of you will go wtf on this. Once again it is just an hypothesis i have been working on for 3 years now.
I just wanted to say that even if Kyrin statement can seem a bit glum it could well be true that we are moving towarda chaos.

You have peaked my curiosity, Flojade. I tend to believe in the universe's tendency toward entropy. Without putting energy into the system, it will naturally move toward chaos. That said, I'm intrigued by your take on existence versus non-existence. I look forward to hearing more.

You honor me Senan.

ནའдհдཀ༑ནკ wrote: Interesting how you approach this discussions I must say.

Thank you

ནའдհдཀ༑ནკ wrote: As to your comment on Antarctica, would the threat of frostbite really change ones perception of beauty, or would one just take more defensive measures to be able to observe that beauty?

Heh, I was trying to make an absurd example to "balance" (hehe) that Obi-wan quote. :side:

ནའдհдཀ༑ནკ wrote: I suggest that we live in a state of balance. Constant good and evil all around us.

What do you mean by constant? And what exactly is good or evil? Your original post mused about the worthiness of doing good because evil will rise up to meet it. How does this work, practically? Can you offer an example?

ནའдհдཀ༑ནკ wrote: I think balance is a key term to our lives. Calmness is a balance between fear and jubilation. Indulging, negating, overreacting and not reacting are luxuries not a state anyone should strive for.

Why?

Flojade wrote: @Kyrin : I checked the ethymology of equilibrium and balance and I am not sure but they kind of look the same to me even if i get what you mean that balance is a neverending movement towards chaos and equilibrium is a state of stillness right? You know it is funny because i am trying to write a book these years and my current hypothesis is that existence is relative and absolute whereas non existence is only relative. So, suspecting its absolute nature, existence, in its relative state has to accept all the non existence inside itself to become absolute and acheive its destiny. The acceptance of non existence divides existence in the image of the universe expanding. When the existence has accepted all the non existence inside itself it becomes non existence, there is nothing left. But then non existence notice the conscience is still there (i cant go into details here it would be too long) and recognizes itself as existence through conscience. As there is nothing else it is absolute but the cycle starts again. Really I simplified a lot and I know many of you will go wtf on this. Once again it is just an hypothesis i have been working on for 3 years now.
I just wanted to say that even if Kyrin statement can seem a bit glum it could well be true that we are moving towarda chaos.

For me, when I say equilibrium or balance there is a difference. Balance implies the coexistence of two "things". Like on a teeter totter. It takes two people to balance. But equilibrium implies a single substance evenly distributed across the medium in which it exists. Energy across the time space fabric for example. For me energy is not light or dark, good or bad. Energy is just energy and exists in all states at all times until it is "observed" so to speak. It is not energy that has the qualities of evil or good, it is our consciousness acting on that energy that gives it those qualities.

But in the end we are really just congealed manifestations of that energy and we are just arrogant enough to think we matter, that we are separate things on that teeter totter, but we really aren’t. We ARE the teeter totter and eventually that is all that will exist because we will meld into that as the universe progresses on a never ending march towards heat death of the universe. We can’t stop it and when it achieves this only the uniform distribution of that energy will exist and nothing more.

Because of this belief I have no problem embracing “both sides of The Force”. Speaking in poetic terms I wholly embrace both the light side and the dark side. I explore the depths of compassion and I explore the depths of rage. Both exist in me as gifts from the universe manifested as my consciousness and I will deny neither.

This is not something easy to do though… I think it takes a great deal more mastery than just embracing the light. The other night was a perfect example. Rage served a valuable purpose for me. It helped me get through a difficult personal situation I was experiencing at the time. The power I feel in those emotions is incredible and with power comes the mettle to face incredible hardships and conquer the greatest of monsters. It was a great victory for me.

But I also did some stupid stuff and there were consequences for that stupid stuff. I failed to remember that these emotions also strip away that veneer of civility and grace we normally carry. I did not take the time to get that under control before putting myself in a situation where that rage was not appropriate and bad things happened. It’s ok though. I accept those consequences and I would not trade the experience for anything because in every act, successful or failure, there is wisdom, if you are adept enough to discern it. That practice is a lifelong pursuit and one that I embrace.


Beyond that you seem to have some interesting theories there. But what do you mean by nonexistence? How does the absence of existence carry any attributes at all? For example subjectivity? How does existence accept inside itself something that does not exist?