As a Jedi what is balance to you?

"There is no Chaos, there is Harmony." I think like that has been said there is Harmony among st conflict. I think there are men of war who find "Harmony" in the midst of a battle so I've read but and found conflict when wartime were over and trying to adapt and some never do. I think Harmony depends on the person I guess much like balance is to each of us. It's been a wondrous variety on what "balance" is to each and everyone of us.

I guess a question is does a Jedi need balance? Or is it that a Jedi's body is literally the scale in which balance presides? When he places too much weigh of for example 'Light" on one side of his scale, the darkness is less and when he places darkness as a priority it outweighs the light but, I think from what I am reading is that a Jedi will at some point find within himself what is "Balanced" and he will know it in THE FORCE. I would say IMO that is a fair observation.

Sven One wrote: "There is no Chaos, there is Harmony." I think like that has been said there is Harmony among st conflict. I think there are men of war who find "Harmony" in the midst of a battle so I've read but and found conflict when wartime were over and trying to adapt and some never do. I think Harmony depends on the person I guess much like balance is to each of us. It's been a wondrous variety on what "balance" is to each and everyone of us.

Very true. That is why I prefer the "Chaos, yet Harmony" version more, because it goes along with what you said, that there is chaos, yet there is the opportunity with Harmony out there, you just gotta look for it. Finding the eye of the storm and following it, inspiring others to walk with you.

Real life Jedi are patterned after movie Jedi. Here at this temple Jedi speak of peace and selfless service but downplay concepts like war and selfish pursuits. I wonder why that is since movie Jedi pursued war just as much as peace. They were at constant war with the sith, the separatists, the Empire.

My question to Jedi then is while you pursue peace and service as noble pursuits do you also acknowledge war and selfishness as not only noble pursuits but as necessary pursuits? Take the water from the bread and it becomes something meaningless. It seems that it is not harmony but engaging in the struggle that brings balance.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Real life Jedi are patterned after movie Jedi. Here at this temple Jedi speak of peace and selfless service but downplay concepts like war and selfish pursuits. I wonder why that is since movie Jedi pursued war just as much as peace. They were at constant war with the sith, the separatists, the Empire.

My question to Jedi then is while you pursue peace and service as noble pursuits do you also acknowledge war and selfishness as not only noble pursuits but at times necessary pursuits? Take the water from the bread and it becomes something meaningless. It seems that it is not harmony but the struggle that brings balance.

The Jedi did not seek conflict. They responded to it when it arose. They tried to let the Senate deal with the situation but the armies of the Separatists and scheming of the Sith made that impossible. The first war arose when the Sith invaded. Selfishness is not needed nor is it noble. A defensive war can be noble but it's not pursued it comes to you. Just like a self-defense situation, you do not seek out the attacker they come to you. That is the Jedi path defense not attack. The fight comes to you not you to the fight.

There is a duality of life that Kyrin speaks of here. I was reflecting on my studies of the Tao Te Ching and came across some things that echo some of what Kyrin says.

"The whole of the Way, is the unity of the opposites. Only the observer sees the beauty or the ugliness. We each walk our own Path. We see our Path, different than anyone else.
This is why we cannot agree on what the Tao, the Way, is. This is also why, the Way changes every time I read it. My perception changes, the impression I receive from the Tao Te Ching changes.

There is no fixed quality that defines what a thing is. It flows. Our mind is quick to define something, it is good or bad, hot or cold, peace or conflict. Just as we ourselves cannot be defined. We are a mystery. We are not good or bad, we simply are, from one moment to the next. We are so much more complex than simple descriptions and labels we place on ourselves."

"These are opposites of fixed states, hot cold, good evil, right wrong, peace war. However, there are also examples of opposite actions, expand shrink, rise fall. This is a constant cycle, give and take, the universe in motion. Riding the wave of life, going with the flow of things. If we live modestly, these rises and falls in our lives will not be as extreme. Actions are a flowing give and take, back and forth, living thing. This is the nature of things. This is the Way."

You cannot have peace without war, conflict. You cannot be selfless, without having selfishness.

As for warfare itself I wrote this.

"Do not start war, avoid warfare, however if we must be at war, do what needs to be done and end it. Craving victory, leads to more need of victory. You end up chasing a never ending campaign. Quick decisive warfare, not long drawn out campaigns, muddied ambitions, these prolong war and may well cause defeat. There are never any true winners in war, even the victor has lost strength. Loss of this strength may well prove our undoing.

Do not be proud of your victories, do not rub it in the face of the loser of the war. This will make the enemy bitter and resentful. They will seek revenge, and the peace will not last. The winner of war, must do so humbly. This is the Way. A humble ending will create a lasting peace. Do not be the hero of warfare, be humble and step out of the lime light. Heroes are short lived, society will grow tired of praising the hero quickly. The hero is prideful, and vane. This does not follow the Way."

"Warfare is a last resort, violence is a last resort. Warfare is the result of a failure in negotiation. Entering war is not a joyous occasion. It is a somber occasion. There are serious repercussions to going to war, people will die. All sides of the conflict of war. We should mourn all loss, not just our own.

My career choice is that of a warrior. I joined the military. Through my years of service, I have been in wartime conflict for more years than peaceful ones. The escalation and end of the cold war, Desert Shield/Storm, Warlord conflicts across Africa, Somalia, Kosovo, Uganda, Sarajevo, the Iraq war, OIF/OEF, Afghanistan. I do not remember a time when there was not a conflict somewhere that we were not involved in. How sad is that? Diplomacy fails this much? Does our ego get in the way of peace this often?

We tend to glorify war. I think this is mostly because we are reminded only of the ending of it. The joy and happiness of triumph and victory. Warfare is exciting and peace is dull and boring. What makes a more engaging story, a tale of a person during war, or during peace? This is a flaw in our character. An "I love me wall" can be seen in so many veterans homes. Displays of medals earned, deeds done. I never understood this. This is not true to the Way. The sage does not seek these things. Do what needs to be done and move forward. I never understood why I had to be rewarded with a medal, a constant reminder of the situations I was in and the friends that I lost, the ones I could not save, could not bring home. Needless to say, I do not have one of these "I love me" walls. I never was a "glory hound", did not enjoy standing in front of my peers and receiving recognition for doing what needed to be done. The limelight was never a place I found comfortable. Warfare is much like a funeral. And it should be celebrated like a funeral. Victory should be a quiet reflection of those lost, the terrible result of our failed negotiations for peaceful resolutions."

This is what I wrote about selfishness and selflessness.

"Those who are selfless are rewarded with praise. In the military, we encouraged our Sailors and Marines to get involved in the community, to be good military ambassadors to the community. The reward for this, was noted in their evaluations, there is even a Medal for Community involvement. There is a paradox I found with this. Are you truly being selfless if you are helping others so that you gain praise? So what selfish person would not then try to be selfless, so that they could attain the praise, recognition, reward? Do we call that selfish unselfishness?

Regardless, through our deeds and actions, selfless behavior, does help and positively affects the lives of those around us. Whatever our driving goal for being selfless is, helping others is fulfilling. If a selfish person acts selflessly long enough, they may very well forget why they helped in the first place."

As for Balance, this is not a static state of being. This is a living thing. It ebbs and flows with life. When we see a tightrope walker. They do not achieve balance, they are constantly chasing balance, they never achieve it. They flow, back and forth across the rope, moving with what life throws at them. They move with life's subtle changes, not large big movements that cause counter moves. Big actions, reactions, cause even bigger ones. Walk the path humbly, flow with life as it changes, the smallest things are the most significant. If we are mindful, we notice them, and flow with them. So I would say that instead of engaging the struggle, by more yielding and embrace the struggle, maybe this is the balance, the harmony so many seek.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Real life Jedi are patterned after movie Jedi.

Named after? Yes. Inspired by? Yes. Patterned after? Not really.

There's no kidnapping children, we don't have to grow ridiculous Padawan braids, no belief in telekinesis or mind control powers, and there dang sure aren't any midiclorians. Lol.

Plus, if we do want to go with based on the movie Jedi, they wanted to avoid conflict at all costs. Like MadHatter said. Think of Yoda in Empire. "Wars not make one great." "A Jedi uses his powers for knowledge and defense. Never for attack." "Adventure. Excitement. A Jedi craves not these things." The closest thing Luke had to formal training denounced violence unless absolutely necessary. It did not, however, ignore it as a possibility and neither has anyone in this thread that I've noticed.

MadHatter wrote: Selfishness is not needed nor is it noble. A defensive war can be noble but it's not pursued it comes to you. Just like a self-defense situation, you do not seek out the attacker they come to you. That is the Jedi path defense not attack. The fight comes to you not you to the fight.

Is it not a selfish need when you study here to become better? It is a need for you alone.

A war of defense is a war of attrition and eventual defeat. Consider WWII and England. They were fighting a war of defense and they were slowly losing that war. It was not until the United States entered the war and began an offensive onslaught that the tides turned and victory was achieved. Defensive wars only serve to prolong the war and more death and suffering is the result. If you are going to enter war, best to enter it with all resolve to win quickly and decisively. Attack is the mechanism for this. Take the fight to the enemy with extreme prejudice. Its not something to seek out but it is something to embrace when the time comes. How many more buildings would have fallen on US soil over the last few years if we had not taken the fight to the enemy?

The hero can also be the most selfless among us, sacrificing himself for the good of the many.
We keep those medals on the wall so that we never forget. It is a constant reminder to ourselves and others to never repeat the mistakes of the past.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

MadHatter wrote: Selfishness is not needed nor is it noble. A defensive war can be noble but it's not pursued it comes to you. Just like a self-defense situation, you do not seek out the attacker they come to you. That is the Jedi path defense not attack. The fight comes to you not you to the fight.

Is it not a selfish need when you study here to become better? It is a need for you alone.

A war of defense is a war of attrition and eventual defeat. Consider WWII and England. They were fighting a war of defense and they were slowly losing that war. It was not until the United States entered the war and began an offensive onslaught that the tides turned and victory was achieved. Defensive wars only serve to prolong the war and more death and suffering is the result. If you are going to enter war, best to enter it with all resolve to win quickly and decisively. Attack is the mechanism for this. Take the fight to the enemy with extreme prejudice. Its not something to seek out but it is something to embrace when the time comes. How many more buildings would have fallen on US soil over the last few years if we had not taken the fight to the enemy?

The hero can also be the most selfless among us, sacrificing himself for the good of the many.
We keep those medals on the wall so that we never forget. It is a constant reminder to ourselves and others to never repeat the mistakes of the past.

No its not selfish. Its not for me alone. As I better myself I am able to help others. When I take time for just myself to relax I refresh myself so that I do not burn out and become unable to help people in need. It prevents me from being short with others and allows me to better handle lifes bumps. Selfish by definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/selfish

Definition of selfish

1 : concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others
2 : arising from concern with one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of others a selfish act

As you can see this means that to be selfish we have to do something to the detriment of others or with no regard to its impact on others for it to be selfish. Bettering yourself is not so for the Jedi nor is relaxing because we know that if we fail to do these things we cannot be there for others or are less equipped to help others.

Further, you confuse being on the defensive in a war with a defensive war. In a fight just like in war being on the defensive is simply blocking and not pressing anything. However a defensive war like a defensive fight means you are not the aggressor, you did not start it. That does not mean you cannot do what it takes to finish it.

You can justify selfish action any way you want but it still does not change the fact it's selfish. Did you ask those you help if it is what they wanted for you to do? No, you do it first and foremost for yourself. Sorry but that's a fact no matter whether you justify it under the guise of helping others or not. As for burnout, true passion in your pursuits has nothing to do with burnout, instead it's just a loss of focus on your part.

Did we not start the revolutionary war? The war against the Germans? Did we not invade Iraq? Once again your justifying. Doing what it takes to "finish a fight" is not a defensive action.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: You can justify selfish action any way you want but it still does not change the fact it's selfish. Did you ask those you help if it is what they wanted for you to do? No, you do it first and foremost for yourself. Sorry but that's a fact no matter whether you justify it under the guise of helping others or not. As for burnout, true passion in your pursuits has nothing to do with burnout, instead it's just a loss of focus on your part.

Did we not start the revolutionary war? The war against the Germans? Did we not invade Iraq? Once again your justifying. Doing what it takes to "finish a fight" is not a defensive action.

First for it to be selfish its has to be without regard for others. If you are doing things with others in mind and not to their detriment that is not selfish. There is nothing that requires you check with anyone before you act merely that you do not disregard them when you do it and do not harm them when you do it. Sorry but that is the definition of the word black and white in the dictionary I cited. You do not have to like definitions but they exist and do not change because you wish them to. I cited the definition above and have proven my case according to the actual meaning of the word. Oh and burn out is a thing I dont care how much love you have for a thing you can burn out if you do not take time to relax.

Further yes it is a defensive action so long as you did not start the fight and only use the amount of force required to end it. That is how self-defense works. According to the law and most moral standards ( outside of some pacifistic stuff ) you have the right to finish the fight and are not the aggressor so long as A you did not start it and B you do not use excessive force. Its that simple