A Time for everything

We went off on a tangent in the Titles thread, so I thought we could continue it here:

Manu wrote:

Streen wrote: Time, to me, seems subjective. Yes you can measure it with a clock. But doesn't time seem to go slower when you stare at one? :silly:

Are you taking about time, or your perception of time? Two different things.

I know in physics time behaves in an odd fashion, with relativity and quantum mechanics and all that. But for the here and now - working, practical knowledge - we all have the same 86400 seconds a day to work with.

I wonder, is there a difference? Reality, or our perception of it... which one rules over the other? Objectively, yes there are only 24 hours in a day, but is anyone objective? Is objectivity even possible?

All questions, yes, but questions are more useful than answers.

I don't really know what the question (if any) is here?

Is time real?

That's...not something I feel particularly qualified to give a great answer to - but as whimsical as time might be, I'm fairly sure I can "run out" of it, however I perceive it as it passes, when mine it out I will perceive a lot less.

So there's that.

I also don't especially bel...


Oh great, some kid is having a seizure.


I'll be back

I remember making an example to a friend about how time doesn't matter, yet it has the tightest leash on us.

Here is the example:

Without looking, how many fingers do you have?
Can you breathe?
Are you hungry?
Are you cold? Hot?

Now, without looking... what time is it?

Its very rare that someone will just guess the correct time, but we know the things that really matter, even without being consciously aware of them. So what does that mean about time? Perhaps it doesn't really matter.

Arisaig wrote: I remember making an example to a friend about how time doesn't matter, yet it has the tightest leash on us.

Here is the example:

Without looking, how many fingers do you have?
Can you breathe?
Are you hungry?
Are you cold? Hot?

Now, without looking... what time is it?

Its very rare that someone will just guess the correct time, but we know the things that really matter, even without being consciously aware of them. So what does that mean about time? Perhaps it doesn't really matter.

You are basing that analogy on a false premise though due to our disconnection from nature. We have become reliant on technology over the millennia and clocks are a part of that. But this is not always how people kept time. In fact in ancient times people used the sun and the stars to keep time. They were as connected to and aware of the time of day just as much as they were to how hot of cold or hungry they were.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote: I remember making an example to a friend about how time doesn't matter, yet it has the tightest leash on us.

Here is the example:

Without looking, how many fingers do you have?
Can you breathe?
Are you hungry?
Are you cold? Hot?

Now, without looking... what time is it?

Its very rare that someone will just guess the correct time, but we know the things that really matter, even without being consciously aware of them. So what does that mean about time? Perhaps it doesn't really matter.

You are basing that analogy on a false premise though due to our disconnection from nature. We have become reliant on technology over the millennia and clocks are a part of that. But this is not always how people kept time. In fact in ancient times people used the sun and the stars to keep time. They were as connected to and aware of the time of day just as much as they were to how hot of cold or hungry they were.

I want to argue that proves my point. As man developed technology, we've made it into a tighter and tighter leash, accurate down to fractions of seconds. It's become a noose.

Yes, we are reliant on tech, much to my dismay. Our ancestors had no idea of hours. Time of day was important, but we can tell that without looking at the clock. Morning, midday, noon, sunset, nighttime, dawn. We can tell that, but we need tech to refine it for us. We've become more reliant on the clock than the sun we all share. So time, in a way, means nothing as compared to where the sun is. Is it night or is it day? Is it dark, or is it light. These are things we can tell without having to refine it to time.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote: I remember making an example to a friend about how time doesn't matter, yet it has the tightest leash on us.

Here is the example:

Without looking, how many fingers do you have?
Can you breathe?
Are you hungry?
Are you cold? Hot?

Now, without looking... what time is it?

Its very rare that someone will just guess the correct time, but we know the things that really matter, even without being consciously aware of them. So what does that mean about time? Perhaps it doesn't really matter.

You are basing that analogy on a false premise though due to our disconnection from nature. We have become reliant on technology over the millennia and clocks are a part of that. But this is not always how people kept time. In fact in ancient times people used the sun and the stars to keep time. They were as connected to and aware of the time of day just as much as they were to how hot of cold or hungry they were.

Yet...at the same time (see what I did there?)...does it really matter?

Accurately stating the correct "time" of day is not important at all. The time we rely upon in our daily lives today is simply a measurement we created for organizational and reference purposes only. While ancient people were aware of time, in relation to the sun and stars, etc., I feel it hardly mattered anywhere NEAR how closely we follow the clock today. Their appreciation of time was more likely in effort to ensure the maximization of available resources. I.E., knowing the migration and daily patterns of huntable animals, or when the best "time" to attend to crops or find certain forageables, etc...not to know what time to "get up" or what time to "make lunch" or anything of the sort.

If we keep it in the "hot or cold" sort of line of thought...simply knowing whether one feels hot or cold is generally enough. The actual exact temperature we might read on a thermometer (or on our phone) is not specifically important to us when we decide to put on a jacket, start a fire, or pull out a fan and throw on some shorts. The same goes for time. Simply knowing that it is morning time suggests it is time to get up and prepare for the day's activities. Being aware of the sun reaching its meridian is an indicator that maybe we could break for lunch if severe hunger hasn't already driven us to the table, and seeing the sun dipping to the western horizon is just an indication that workable light is about to go down for the night and that we should retire to our homes for rest. Etc. Does the actual exact time ever truly play into a natural human existence where we aren't punching time cards for pay?

Just sayin....

Arisaig wrote: I want to argue that proves my point. As man developed technology, we've made it into a tighter and tighter leash, accurate down to fractions of seconds. It's become a noose.

Yes, we are reliant on tech, much to my dismay. Our ancestors had no idea of hours. Time of day was important, but we can tell that without looking at the clock. Morning, midday, noon, sunset, nighttime, dawn. We can tell that, but we need tech to refine it for us. We've become more reliant on the clock than the sun we all share. So time, in a way, means nothing as compared to where the sun is. Is it night or is it day? Is it dark, or is it light. These are things we can tell without having to refine it to time.

Yes but time is not something you experience as defined by a clock, or even the sun for that matter. Time is a part of every experience we have. I am not hungry and then I am hungry. I was not hungry before but now I am hungry, in the future I will eat and no longer be hungry. Children grow and people get old and die. plants grow. I plant today and tomorrow I harvest. I must plant before the winter comes so I can harvest and eat before the plant dies in the cold. Everything we do is based on time. there is no doubt that we experience time. What I think is being asked is what is the source of time. If the earth stopped moving around the sun would time stop?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote: I want to argue that proves my point. As man developed technology, we've made it into a tighter and tighter leash, accurate down to fractions of seconds. It's become a noose.

Yes, we are reliant on tech, much to my dismay. Our ancestors had no idea of hours. Time of day was important, but we can tell that without looking at the clock. Morning, midday, noon, sunset, nighttime, dawn. We can tell that, but we need tech to refine it for us. We've become more reliant on the clock than the sun we all share. So time, in a way, means nothing as compared to where the sun is. Is it night or is it day? Is it dark, or is it light. These are things we can tell without having to refine it to time.

Yes but time is not something you experience as defined by a clock, or even the sun for that matter. Time is a part of every experience we have. I am not hungry and then I am hungry. I was not hungry before but now I am hungry, in the future I will eat and no longer be hungry. Children grow and people get old and die. plants grow. I plant today and tomorrow I harvest. I must plant before the winter comes so I can harvest and eat before the plant dies in the cold. Everything we do is based on time. there is no doubt that we experience time. What I think is being asked is what is the source of time. If the earth stopped moving around the sun would time stop?

We are all cognizant of the passage of time...absolutely. And if we are wise, we plan according to the expected future passage of time as well. As you have laid out in the agriculture example.

Yet we don't live life in spans of time, seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, or years. We only live in the current exact moment.

We anticipate, and expect that we still have time...but we can never truly know how much time we have left. So to a certain extent, adhering too closely to time is almost a form of self-delusion. We plan for the future, and should, because if we don't then we risk our ability to live in those future moments too. But it is the dreamy aspiration or want of more time where we start complicating things.

IN a purely theoretical sense, no, time is not dependent upon the sun. If the earth stopped its revolution about the sun, time would still continue...but science tells us that were that to happen, we probably would not have much time ourselves, at least in terms of survival.

Time is a concept. It has applications and relevancy in various conditions. But it is not permanent or unilaterally controlling of anything we don't let it control.

Arisaig wrote: I remember making an example to a friend about how time doesn't matter, yet it has the tightest leash on us.

Here is the example:

Without looking, how many fingers do you have?
Can you breathe?
Are you hungry?
Are you cold? Hot?

Now, without looking... what time is it?

Its very rare that someone will just guess the correct time, but we know the things that really matter, even without being consciously aware of them. So what does that mean about time? Perhaps it doesn't really matter.

I take it that you are conscious about how many calories you are ingesting each time you eat? Do you know the exact measure of oxigen that you are inhaling?

Your argument is not against time itself, it is against the importance of the clock.

Manu wrote:

Arisaig wrote: I remember making an example to a friend about how time doesn't matter, yet it has the tightest leash on us.

Here is the example:

Without looking, how many fingers do you have?
Can you breathe?
Are you hungry?
Are you cold? Hot?

Now, without looking... what time is it?

Its very rare that someone will just guess the correct time, but we know the things that really matter, even without being consciously aware of them. So what does that mean about time? Perhaps it doesn't really matter.

I take it that you are conscious about how many calories you are ingesting each time you eat? Do you know the exact measure of oxigen that you are inhaling?

Your argument is not against time itself, it is against the importance of the clock.

If we remove the clock from human technology...then what is our depiction of time? Do we vest nearly as much interest in it without a clock as we do with one?

When you see a bird launch off a branch of a tree, out to find food for its offspring, do you think the bird cares about time? Does the bird consider its life in relation to previous moments and future moments? Is the bird fearful of its impending death, or the perception of limited time waning as it grows in age? Or does the bird just live in that moment and that moment at all?

Time as a concept, with or without the advent of the clock, speaks more to me as mankind's expression of uneasiness with the notion of our own imminent end. Were we unaware or unconcerned with the prospect of our physical death, would time matter to us at all?