Anon, the Clergy

AMAs are fun, but I can't imagine there's anything remotely interesting about me to justify my starting that kind of thread. But an AMA for the Clergy? With a sarahah link? Katie, bar the door.

Let's do this.

TOTJOClergy.sarahah.com

This sounds fun.

I don't really feel my question need be anonymous... I've certainly always felt that the clergy and the knighthood should basically be doing the same thing and that by the time someone is a knight they should have all the skills the clergy do with relation to understanding and listening to others. Do you believe that the clergy have a separate part to play?

Imo the Clergy are here to help be there during the hard times. We're someone to lean on and to vent to. We are a tool for the Jedi here to use.

Does the clergy have to keep everything we talk about confidential? If I had done something bad, could I feel comfortable coming to a clergy-person to discuss it?

The first half of your question is an easy yes. In order for us to adequately provide clerical counseling, the persons with whom we speak have to be comfortable sharing whatever they need to. A member of the Clergy will listen with the goal of removing value judgment from the equation to the extent our human nature allows. But we also have to scrupulously protect the privacy and dignity of those with whom we share, no matter where the conversation goes. Even when we in the Clergy are speaking amongst ourselves. Here's a hypothetical: A member of the Temple comes to me for clerical counseling, and raises questions that I believe require me to consult with another Clergy person. I would remove all identifying information, and anything that would lead to identifying information, before asking even my own training master, and I would do my best to boil the question down to an issue of general applicability rather than a specific example.

The second half, let me start by saying I hope you would feel comfortable doing so, yes. The caveat is, if by "had done something bad" you are referring to something that might be criminal, I would direct you to an ordained member of the Clergy. The functional and legal difference between a licensed minister and a deacon/priest/bishop is the clerical privilege, which means that an ordained member of the Clergy not only has a duty not to divulge confidential information but cannot be compelled to divulge confidential information gained during clerical counseling.

Edan wrote: I've certainly always felt that the clergy and the knighthood should basically be doing the same thing and that by the time someone is a knight they should have all the skills the clergy do with relation to understanding and listening to others. Do you believe that the clergy have a separate part to play?

That's a great question. The short answer is yes, I think we do. A Knight is charged with, inter alia, training and mentoring, which absolutely can include the spiritual guidance that the Clergy are designed to offer. But the Knight/Apprentice relationship is one-on-one, which by nature can limit the interaction and the ground upon which that interaction happens, not to mention other interactions. For example, I might know that I can go to any Knight I feel comfortable talking with, but that doesn't mean the Knight I go to will feel comfortable replying to me -- whether out of respect for my teaching master, unfamiliarity with the specific thing with which I am wrestling, whatever. The clerical counseling relationship is not training and mentoring in the sense that it implicates Temple policy in this way.

These are just my first thoughts. I welcome any other input on this question as well.

If I produce a writing that the Temple hosts, such as a sermon/I.P. lesson/book that I submit for public use, who retains those rights? If I made a sermon, can I send it to a website for articles (provided they do not take the rights to the writing) in exchange for payment? Can I use material I submit for the I.P. or any other purpose here and put it together for a book that I can sell? Who retains the rights of writing and submissions?

Huh, I don't have an answer for that off the top of my head. I have the faintest glimmer of what I think the answer is, but I want to verify that I'm straight on it before I shoot my mouth off. In all fairness, I see this as more a Temple question than a Clergy question, but the Clergy do host sermons, so we really should know for certain.

The Clergy really needs to expand/ramp up it's outreach. I know you're struggling for people right now, but this is something that I've seen lacking for a while. I've heard it said by more than one person "I really wish someone would reach out to me" and in the end, no one does, and that person falls by the wayside and disappears. I've heard this as long as I've been here from across the ranks, by many different people. As a clergy, you're here to provide spiritual and emotional support for the layperson. Some may not feel comfortable in approaching first, so it is your responsibility to reach out instead. Not just for initiates and below, but for all ranks.

We can do better, I agree completely. What I can tell you is that I have witnessed some heartfelt clerical outreach in the past few weeks, from the Pastor on down, and I know that for every such instance there are many more that I am not seeing in PMs and messages. When I see that sort of call for support you describe, or even something that feels implicitly like, I reach out when it would be appropriate to do so. But I have to admit that I don't see everything, or maybe even most things. I'm not in chat or watching the Wall very often, so I sometimes rely on people who do to give me a nudge. Please, if you see something that I haven't, call my attention to it. No matter how limited my bandwidth for Temple stuff might be on any given day, I will put outreach first, and I know most of us in the Clergy feel the same.

Having said that, you're right, I probably do devote more time to speaking with newer folks around here than I do those who have been around. I confess to a presumption that Apprentices and Knights have TMs and fellows and friends to whom they are more likely to go. I am one of those people for some few. But that should not lead me to conclude that everyone who's climbed the IP has that sort of support network. Thank you for pointing out something I would like to address.

@atticus

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Ministers-Corner/119313-ask-me-spiritually-anything
Semper Paratus
Always ready !

I suppose the alternative would follow [redacted]'s lead and leave altogether because bringing up facts makes people uncomfortable. Is thenceforth thing to do, turn my head, and play dumb, if so than perhaps I never was Jedi........

Sometimes it is necessary to call attention to an area requiring improvement, and yes, sometimes that will make people uncomfortable. Our Doctrine provides some guidance to how to handle these situations, but the manner in which we apply these principles in our interactions is probably more situational than it perhaps should be. Emotion, yet peace, but still emotion, and you certainly have to choose your battles with discretion. But I hope we can all agree that sticking one's head in the sand is seldom going to be the answer.

Straight up, though, if one honestly concludes that leaving the Temple is what would be best for his/her well-being, I feel I would be out of line doing anything beyond listening and offering support. In most cases. Doesn't mean I won't talk it out with you, under any analysis you care to apply. But support means support, whether I agree with your ultimate course of action or not. I'm not gonna be the guy who pressures you to stay in a distressing situation if you come to the decision that distress has become more than you should continue to manage. Ol' Ben say, "You must do what you feel is right, of course." This forum is not the only playground in which we can continue to be friends.