What is Truth?

I thought I'd share this beautiful poem/parable about perspective with the community.

The Blind Man and the Elephant
by John Godfrey Saxe

It was six men of Indostan, to learning much inclined,
who went to see the elephant (Though all of them were blind),
that each by observation, might satisfy his mind.

The first approached the elephant, and, happening to fall,
against his broad and sturdy side, at once began to bawl:
'God bless me! but the elephant, is nothing but a wall!'

The second feeling of the tusk, cried: 'Ho! what have we here,
so very round and smooth and sharp? To me tis mighty clear,
this wonder of an elephant, is very like a spear!'

The third approached the animal, and, happening to take,
the squirming trunk within his hands, 'I see,' quoth he,
the elephant is very like a snake!'

The fourth reached out his eager hand, and felt about the knee:
'What most this wondrous beast is like, is mighty plain,' quoth he;
'Tis clear enough the elephant is very like a tree.'

The fifth, who chanced to touch the ear, Said; 'E'en the blindest man
can tell what this resembles most; Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an elephant, is very like a fan!'

The sixth no sooner had begun, about the beast to grope,
than, seizing on the swinging tail, that fell within his scope,
'I see,' quothe he, 'the elephant is very like a rope!'

And so these men of Indostan, disputed loud and long,
each in his own opinion, exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right, and all were in the wrong!

So, oft in theologic wars, the disputants, I ween,
tread on in utter ignorance, of what each other mean,
and prate about the elephant, not one of them has seen!
____________________

Thoughts?

I really like this poem and the message behind it!
May I ask how you found it?

As for the topic, I see that more people have troubles seeing things from perspectives outside their own.
As for a fix, I got no clue! Since joining the Temple I know that it has been easier for me to see what other people might be talking about when I take a second for myself. The problem is always, for me at least, trying to convince the other person to do the same.
I think we all know that the words "Mate, calm down", does the exact opposite.

What I have found that works for me is to first accept their point. Let them know that their points are being seen and understood. I may not agree but I accept the validity of their points.
I am probably going way too far off point with this post from the poem but I hope at least that this starts a discussion.
Calming yourself is easy(ish), but calming another is a much harder hurdle.

What works for you Thomas?

Great poem Thomas, thanks for sharing it!

This kind of ties into the two threads I've been involved in with Reacher and how we all perceive reality to be a little different

I certainly think that being able to listen to what others are saying and seeing things from their point of view helps to find the truth. Truth often lies somewhere in the middle of all of our opinions, its why I'm a fan of the Dialectic Method

Truth is singular and unchanging.

How people perceive it is subjective and not directly representative of what is.

Discussing with others will help you to understand what they perceive as the truth…

Only exploring the foundation in its entirety will you discover the whole truth for yourself.

Once you discover the truth it becomes personal because others still only see the part of the whole they are focused on.

MarVinKra,

A good example on what you described in your post is called the highway theory. Imagine you and another are driving along the metaphysical highway in a conversation with someone who has a different view than you in like a treatment setting. Now, you can ram them (argue) to help them change their view, but that has the potential to hurt both parties. The best way is to drive along side of them (find common ground), and work with them to help them understand why their actions probably aren't the best idea and then you'll both turn around willingly.

And I think Wescli puts it well. For me, I like to say that I don't seek truth; instead I let truth happen to me. By me seeking truth, I can choose to get locked up in my own perceptions and see only what I want. It's sort of like having a beginner's mind approach to life and allowing people to tell me their views.

A static perception of truth is the death of inquiry. There are things that I know. Things that I know I don't know. And things I don't know that I don't know. For me, bring mindful of these three, especially the last one, is important to my understanding.

I tend to think there's about 7 billion truths just on Earth alone (or are we closer to 8 billion now?). None is any more true than any other.

I believe there's some kind of Being/Force/Whatever that has the whole picture of Truth-with-a-capital-T, but my puny mortal mind is so incapable of understanding it that there's no real sense in contemplating it.

The trick, as I see it, is to seek understanding of and compassion for conflicting truths and, if necessary given the situation, use that understanding to form a consensual new truth.

Great poem. Good lesson.


On truth: Just remember it does not equate to fact, then pick the one that works for you.

rugadd wrote: Great poem. Good lesson.


On truth: Just remember it does not equate to fact, then pick the one that works for you.

Not a comment on your presentation here at all, just an additional thought: I think it's also super important sometimes to remember to present/word things as personal truths and not facts, too. It might shift a lot of discussions focuses from being "right" to seeking understanding.

I just finished reading The Lakota Way - by Joseph M. Marshall III , and HIGHLY recommend it as many of the stories contained therein could be directly applicable to the teachings of this Temple.

In Lakota culture, "Truth" (wowicake), is "that which is real, the way the world is".

To explain this "real...way the world is" form of Truth, the Lakota recount "The Story of the Trickster's Song". I will summarize it, based upon Marshall's telling, below:

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Iktomi was a trickster known to all the peoples, two-leggeds, four-leggeds, wingeds, and crawlers, for his laziness and general lack of skills. Except that he preferred living off the work and mistakes of others, for in that he was truly skilled.

One day, Iktomi awoke very hungry, as usual, since he refused to hunt or gather on his own. He struck out to find an easy meal and happened upon a pond of ducks, singing and splashing in the water.

Iktomi knew he could not hunt the ducks like any other hunter would, and knew the ducks would take flight upon seeing him, for they knew who Iktomi was, and would not be easily fooled into becoming his meal.

So he hid a devised a plan.

Iktomi gathered a large pile of sticks, lashed them together, and stood to walk past the pond, paying no attention to the ducks, but instead made off away from the pond in plain sight, hurriedly.

The ducks initially all took flight at seeing Iktomi, but he trudged along without taking notice of them. Bewildered they returned to the pond and watched eagerly as Iktomi passed by without so much as a glance.

The irritation of not being noticed built as Iktomi seemed uninterested in the ducks, which was extremely out of character for the trickster. So the ducks swam close to the shore as Iktomi was leaving from the pond and called out to him.

"Where are you going?" asked the ducks.

"Oh, I am sorry, I did not see you there. I am very busy and have to get these sacred songs to my people. They are waiting for me. Goodbye." Replied Iktomi as he turned to hurry away.

The ducks loved singing and dancing and splashing on the pond, and were even more curious now to learn that Iktomi was carrying sacred songs.

"Oh, please, just sing us one of the sacred songs before you go. We love songs." Cried the ducks.

Iktomi was very reluctant, and insisted he was in a hurry and that the sacred songs were powerful and not to be sung to just anyone, but finally caved to the ducks persistent pleading that he sing a sacred song for them before he leaves.

Iktomi agreed, but warned the ducks that the sacred songs had very special powers, and that if he were to sing one for them they would have to follow his instructions very carefully. The ducks eagerly agreed, excited at the chance to dance along to a new sacred song they had never heard before.

Iktomi shuffled through the sticks carefully, looking for just the right song he said, while telling the ducks that once he began singing they would have to keep their eyes closed, no matter what they heard or felt, or else their eyes would bleed and forever turn red. The ducks agreed, and as Iktomi picked out the right stick, they all closed their eyes and awaited the song.

Other than being an excellent trickster, Iktomi's only other quality attribute was that he had a great voice and was very good at singing. With the ducks all closing their eyes tightly, he began to sing to them "Heya hey hey hey heya ha...". It was a beautiful song, one the ducks had never heard, and they all began dancing and splashing around in the pond, sure to keep their eyes tightly shut as Iktomi had warned them to do, so as not to suffer the powers of the sacred song.

Slowly creeping into the waters as he sang, Iktomi began hitting the ducks over the head with the stick he had chosen, one at a time, killing many of the ducks. The splashes as Iktomi swung his stick, one by one, were ignored by the dancing and splashing of the other ducks, with their eyes closed.

As Iktomi killed more and more of the ducks, one duck began to feel something was wrong, for the dancing and splashing of his friends became less and less. Despite being warned not to, at risk of his eyes bleeding and turning forever red, the duck opened his eyes just as Iktomi was striking the duck next to him, and quickly took in the scene of all the dead ducks floating around the pond near him.

The duck called out to all the others still alive, "Look out!...Fly away, fly away, or Iktomi will kill us all!" The other ducks too opened their eyes to see what was happening and quickly took flight to escape Iktomi, but for many of them, it was too late.

Iktomi was delighted at his cleverness and feasted on the ducks until he could not take another bite, before falling asleep next to the pond with a full stomach.

The eyes of each surviving duck did in fact turn red because they opened their eyes during Iktomi's song, and to this day their descendants also have red eyes. They can still be seen flying above or floating on a pond, always casting cautious red eyed glances from side to side, looking out for Iktomi.

While we may never live long enough to fully understand what Truth really IS, we can be certain that without it, Iktomi would be the most powerful being on Earth. And that is the Truth.

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NOTE TO OP: By no means trying to hijack this thread, I truly love the story of the elephant and the blind men (I feel like that was mentioned somewhere in the IP also...perhaps in Watts'?). At any rate, it seems to me that this story here adds well to the discussion of "truth", while not necessarily in the same vein as currently being discussed where we see our "truth" differently from the perspective of another's "truth", but also that the "Truth" is actually usually only one real aspect of how things truly are in the world. Whether or not we can see that truth, or whether another can see that truth, is the challenge.