Sex Differences in Reproductive Rights

Trisskar wrote: Or. We could provide our children with more and better Sex & Family Education. Nip it at the bud as it were. The problem is this mentality of "Cleaning up the mess after it's happened" while completely ignoring what lead up to the mess in the first place.

I agree with this, however it should not in any way mean that we should not have a plan in place for when/if the above fails.

Well, if women get a call on whether or not to have the child, shouldn't men be able to opt out of child support?

Maybe placing the burden on the woman would lead back to a more selective/careful woman, since they are supposedly the ones who matter, and man is just the seed giver.

Unpopular opinion, just puttinh it out there off the top of my mind.

P.S. What Ren mentioned about men being trapped by the law in UK seems sinister

Trisskar wrote: Or. We could provide our children with more and better Sex & Family Education. Nip it at the bud as it were. The problem is this mentality of "Cleaning up the mess after it's happened" while completely ignoring what lead up to the mess in the first place.

Most sensible thing I've seen in this thread so far. But unfortunately, still very simplistic in what is a much larger issue.

In my experience (that is to say that I'm not drawing on statistics, studies etc) even my friends who planned their children didnt really have any idea what they were in for. The reality of the commitment of having children is difficult to truly forsee, as is the cost!

The issue I usually see with these threads is that they tend to be rather black and white and attempt to make it seem like the input from mother and father is the same. Its not, but that doesnt mean that they arent equally important. A man doesnt feed his child from his body, require the time it takes to physically recover from birth and since women often dont work in the few months after children, they are usually the ones seeing to doctors visits etc. Small babies really are a 24/7 job. And if and when a woman does go back to work, there is significant evidence that her career path, income and chance of promotion are lessened by having children. And she is often still the primary day to day caregiver.

What a father does provide at that stage is support. Whether its emotional, physical or financial, its absolutely essential. And later helps to parent, teach and instill various moral values. Its a different kind of imput, but no less needed.

Yesterday I read an article by an anti-feminism mens group (searching for the link as it was rather good) claiming that abortion is really a mans issue because men needed to step up and take the role of protector and provider, thereby eliminating the most common reason for abortion. Which does bring me to some numbers.

Current stats suggest that 85% of women seeking abortions are unmarried, 72% of them already have children. 42% of them live below the poverty line, and 79% of all women seeking abortions are econimically disadvantaged. Half of all women seeking terminations DID use birth control which failed. And Im looking for updated stats since the most recent numbers Ive found are from 2014, but a quarter of all women seeking abortions did so because they are in abusive relationships.

Which would suggest that desperation and a lack of support are largely in play.

One stat that I have found interesting is the fact that dispite what the media tells us, men are significantly more pro choice than women (based on polls so Im not sure how accurate that data is, but its interesting)


I did some digging on whats known as Reproductive Coercion/sabotage, since the idea of a woman deliberately getting pregnant in order to trap a guy into unwanted child support seems to be so prevalent in these discussions. I found that its estimated that around 10% of men report their sexual partner presuring them not to use condoms, theres no concrete numbers on things like poking holes in condoms (unsurprisingly)

But interestingly women reported reproductive coercion at the same level. Again, difficult to find good numbers on this, but a worrying trend on google was sites and articles for men on how to sabotage their partners birth control. And around 15% of women seeking abortions report reproductive coercion or sabotage.

Unfortunately, and there really DOES need to be more studies done on this, I found it very difficult to find any kind of meaningful research on how many men favoured termination vs becoming a father when their partners chose to terminate, but what I did find was a few informal studies. Not enough data that Id feel comfortable making any kind of statement, but overwhelmingly they said that that they "didnt feel ready to become fathers" but that does NOT indicate whether they would have prefered the pregancy. I would say that some did as there was a level of guilt and regret reported on about a quarter of respondents.



sooo, what am I trying to say...
Debating this kind of thing is difficult, because each side is affected regardless of the outcome. A woman who keeps a baby and expects child support is hardly untouched by the impact of her decision. Just like a man whos partner choses to terminate is not unaffected. But we do need to remember that we often discuss the cases that are most controversial and point to some kind of malignancy as though they are the standard, when more often than not they are the exceptions to the rule. But its easier to get worked up about and focus on because of the emotional response it creates.

As for reproductive right, its a multi faceted and very complex issue that is far more than the black and white opnions we've seen in the many threads discussion it. Until there is a great deal more meaningful research on both sides, I dont think that any kind of decisions can be made on how best to manage this question. Until that point, its really just opinion.

The family unit is the cure to most of these issues. When we as a species start having sex with everything that moves there will be consequences to our actions.

But as a global society, we have killed "God", we are actively pursuing the death of the family and desperately seeking validation through the pursuit of individual rights. Without the Force (God, whatever moral superiority you choose to call it) there is no good and evil. Only opinions of good and evil. Without a unifying moral compass, and because of the pursuit of individual validation, we miss out the very point of the entire conversation and the only thing that actually matters.

When two people decide to tangle and a new life is created because of it, then it is those people’s moral responsibility, duty and privilege to put the wellbeing of that life above everything else.

Birth control is not 100%. Nor can you trust people 100% to have your interest in heart.

Don’t want to get pregnant but you just have to have sex? Have sex with women. Don’t want to get someone pregnant but you just have to have sex, have sex with other men. Only in modern Western society has sex been so one sided. All throughout history in every culture sex and sexual preference was fluid. And in many, the only reason for people of the opposite sex to have sex was for the purpose of procreation.