Misconceptions ? "Everything happens for a reason?

Magnus Staar wrote: When you mention "reason", two separate things are included in that word:

1. Cause and consequence.

2. A hidden "will" or "meaning".

Cause and consequence is objective. You put your hand into fire, your hand burns.

A hidden "will" or "meaning" is subjective. You choose to see meaning or assign value/judgement to an event.

Excellent ! Now why would there be meaning to what happens to us ?

MartaLina wrote:

Magnus Staar wrote: When you mention "reason", two separate things are included in that word:

1. Cause and consequence.

2. A hidden "will" or "meaning".

Cause and consequence is objective. You put your hand into fire, your hand burns.

A hidden "will" or "meaning" is subjective. You choose to see meaning or assign value/judgement to an event.

Excellent ! Now why would there be meaning to what happens to us ?

Personal Interpretation? But that in of itself is subjective to the interpreter. It didn't "happen" to you, it was added after an event in your life, by yourself...

Zenchi wrote:

MartaLina wrote:

Magnus Staar wrote: When you mention "reason", two separate things are included in that word:

1. Cause and consequence.

2. A hidden "will" or "meaning".

Cause and consequence is objective. You put your hand into fire, your hand burns.

A hidden "will" or "meaning" is subjective. You choose to see meaning or assign value/judgement to an event.

Excellent ! Now why would there be meaning to what happens to us ?

Personal Interpretation?

Ok but what is the meaning of that personal interpretation , does it help to know why things happen , do we want to know or do we comfort ourselfes with the quote that everything happens for a reason ?

I agree with Magnus.

Cause and effect is a real and understandable force in our universe. Meaning is what we ascribe to the effects we experince (especially if we're unaware of the cause).

I think it's human nature to want to assign meaning to our lives. Why? Because we can't possibly know if there is objective meaning to our existence (unless we're part of one big experiment done my hyper-intelligent pan-dimensional space mice?), so we create our own meaning.

If it helps you sleep at night and ward off your own existential dread, and isn't harming others, there is no reason why you can't find meaning/reasons for the things that happen in your life.

To echo the common sentiment, everything natural has a cause. Sometimes you don't like that cause, and more often you don't know the cause.
From a purely existential viewpoint, you might as well not look both ways before crossing the street, since you have the radical freedom to do so. In terms of living in a way that creates meaning, I like Jean-Paul Sarte's idea of authenticity as a guideline of living the good life. You won't explain literally everything that happens, so finding contentment in what you do have is a small comfort. Some people live authentically by believing everything has a conscious purpose; if you disagree with that idea, who are you to tell them so, since they're living authentically.

I dont think everything happens for a reason
But I think in order to make sense of and live with events we find our own reasons for things.
It gives us a sense of some control and order.

Somethings just happen, there is no reason, explanations, chaos is as much a part of things as everything else.

MartaLina wrote:

Zenchi wrote:

MartaLina wrote:

Magnus Staar wrote: When you mention "reason", two separate things are included in that word:

1. Cause and consequence.

2. A hidden "will" or "meaning".

Cause and consequence is objective. You put your hand into fire, your hand burns.

A hidden "will" or "meaning" is subjective. You choose to see meaning or assign value/judgement to an event.

Excellent ! Now why would there be meaning to what happens to us ?

Personal Interpretation?

Ok but what is the meaning of that personal interpretation , does it help to know why things happen , do we want to know or do we comfort ourselfes with the quote that everything happens for a reason ?

We comfort ourselves. But rather than being a lie, it is a willfull choice as to how we choose to perceive life.

Neo: "because I choose to".

I'm along the same philosophy as everything does happen for a reason, in terms of every effect has a cause, now what a lot of people tend to infer is that everything happens for a reason in that the reason is based entirely on intention, and that intention is managed by a single entity or even a group of entities.

The fact of the matter is I don't think humans can, or even in the near future, be able to comprehend all the possible events required or necessarily to lead up to any event happening to 100% accuracy. We can plan up to a certain point, and to a high probability, but there is never a guarantee. So I don't see the "reason" part of that quote as being intent as much the sum of several actions, or in actions reaching their conclusion.

Gisteron wrote: In my opinion what to make of the phrase depends on - unsurprisingly - what is meant by it. If we mean to say that there is a thought somewhere at the root of everything that happens, I'd be very curious to see how anybody could possibly know any such thing. If this means that every effect has an identifiable cause, then that is as well something logicians have yet to prove using what ever colloquial meaning is typically used for cause, effect, and having, respectively. Nuclear physics would beg to differ with a statement like that, too.
But of course one might also take apart what it is we mean by "everything". Does that mean literally every event as a subset of a probability space? Does it only mean things that can happen, or perhaps only those that already did?
And in the same breath, what does happening mean? Are we talking about actions people take or just occurrences, instances of events from the aforementioned probability space?

So in the end, if someone says they do think that everything happens for a reason - or indeed if they say they do not - what have you learned about them from that statement? I say they would need to explain what they mean when they say it before I can take anything away from that conversation. Likewise, a simple yes or no, be it with or without explaining why, may just be that little bit too simple for a question phrased in a way that can be used to mean so many different things.

I understand what you are saying , i just wonder , does it have to be one or the other , does everything that happens have to have a reason , except from the fact that it seems comforting its not really adding anything to the things happening.

MartaLina wrote:

Gisteron wrote: In my opinion what to make of the phrase depends on - unsurprisingly - what is meant by it. If we mean to say that there is a thought somewhere at the root of everything that happens, I'd be very curious to see how anybody could possibly know any such thing. If this means that every effect has an identifiable cause, then that is as well something logicians have yet to prove using what ever colloquial meaning is typically used for cause, effect, and having, respectively. Nuclear physics would beg to differ with a statement like that, too.
But of course one might also take apart what it is we mean by "everything". Does that mean literally every event as a subset of a probability space? Does it only mean things that can happen, or perhaps only those that already did?
And in the same breath, what does happening mean? Are we talking about actions people take or just occurrences, instances of events from the aforementioned probability space?

So in the end, if someone says they do think that everything happens for a reason - or indeed if they say they do not - what have you learned about them from that statement? I say they would need to explain what they mean when they say it before I can take anything away from that conversation. Likewise, a simple yes or no, be it with or without explaining why, may just be that little bit too simple for a question phrased in a way that can be used to mean so many different things.

I understand what you are saying , i just wonder , does it have to be one or the other , does everything that happens have to have a reason , except from the fact that it seems comforting its not really adding anything to the things happening.

Does it need too? Again, individual interpretation. What's the purpose of searching for one answer that applies to everyone, when it ultimately comes down to the Individual in question. Unless we are only referring to cause and effect that begins outside of that individuals sphere of influence...