Nonviolence vs Activism

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7 years 4 months ago #265496 by
Replied by on topic Nonviolence vs Activism
But look at the statistics.

. Cops are murdering blacks for no reason
. ISIS are beheading everyone
. Social media means hate and tension is rife

And we, "keepers of the peace" just sit here on our forums, occasionally having a peaceful protest. That gets you nowhere. With common sense gun control, aggresive riots could show evil and horrible people that the common people can and will if necessary defend their ideals by force of arms.

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7 years 4 months ago #265497 by Leah Starspectre

Silas Mercury wrote: But look at the statistics.

. Cops are murdering blacks for no reason
. ISIS are beheading everyone
. Social media means hate and tension is rife

And we, "keepers of the peace" just sit here on our forums, occasionally having a peaceful protest. That gets you nowhere. With common sense gun control, aggresive riots could show evil and horrible people that the common people can and will if necessary defend their ideals by force of arms.


Two wrongs don't make a right.
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7 years 4 months ago #265498 by Zenchi
Replied by Zenchi on topic Nonviolence vs Activism

Silas Mercury wrote: But look at the statistics.

. Cops are murdering blacks for no reason
. ISIS are beheading everyone
. Social media means hate and tension is rife

And we, "keepers of the peace" just sit here on our forums, occasionally having a peaceful protest. That gets you nowhere. With common sense gun control, aggresive riots could show evil and horrible people that the common people can and will if necessary defend their ideals by force of arms.



Ooh I soo wish I could upload a witty little cat meme right now, lol!

But I can't....
:(

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7 years 4 months ago #265505 by MadHatter
Replied by MadHatter on topic Nonviolence vs Activism

Silas Mercury wrote: But look at the statistics.

. Cops are murdering blacks for no reason
. ISIS are beheading everyone
. Social media means hate and tension is rife

And we, "keepers of the peace" just sit here on our forums, occasionally having a peaceful protest. That gets you nowhere. With common sense gun control, aggresive riots could show evil and horrible people that the common people can and will if necessary defend their ideals by force of arms.


Cant upload a pic so that sucks. But CITATION NEEDED.

Oh and ISIS is beheading everyone? Huh my head seems firmly attached as does most people I've spoken to recently. Is this a new thing? Have they just forgotten about my town or was that streching a rare event to be common?

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Apprentices: Lama Su, Leah
Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can

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7 years 4 months ago #265583 by Kobos
Replied by Kobos on topic Nonviolence vs Activism

Silas Mercury wrote: But look at the statistics.

. Cops are murdering blacks for no reason
. ISIS are beheading everyone
. Social media means hate and tension is rife

And we, "keepers of the peace" just sit here on our forums, occasionally having a peaceful protest. That gets you nowhere. With common sense gun control, aggresive riots could show evil and horrible people that the common people can and will if necessary defend their ideals by force of arms.


Silas, I know a lot of people tend to attack your views as they see them as misguided. So understand that this is in no way attacks on what you have said, just somethings I hope you will consider.

1. With the utmost respect to LEO's here many of whom I have worked with in the past, there is a certain level of militarization that has not existed in some time, I trained officers in use of fire arms for reference. There is a reason for them always hovering over the holster. That brings me to "common sense gun control." I agree with you that not everyone may be ready to own a gun. However, it is a right within our constitution as has been decided by the supreme court of our country. Second on this, is that it is a Pandora's box, there is no closing it. Cops are not indiscriminately out there shooting African Americans, that's not exactly how it works (though there is a lot of prejudice weather intentional or not that is causing the problem you have seen. I was at the protests in Ferguson, where the major coverage that you probably saw happened. What happened later that night was not civil disobedience with a purpose, it was destruction of other peoples lively hood, people whom were also there supporting the protesters and were in the very community so affected. I spent the early years of my life in a major city impoverished area and spent my early 20's in a very very bad area of a particularly famous city, it is not like what you see on TV it is not like the movies, Violence is not controlled and innocents are often the biggest victims. I will be happy to give in my weapons when i know that those whom do fire indiscriminately drop theirs.

2. ISIS- is a military force fighting a gorilla war against forces of countries that are woefully under trained nor equipped for the type of war they are fighting. Isis is well funded from behind the scenes by some one and the powers that be in the western world will not risk another full scale engagement in ME because literally every engagement there since the 50's has produced nothing but further issues, major failures in foreign policy of the entire west and Russia for that matter. Thing is we can't equip and train one faction of said forces in the middle east because it then gives rise to another guerrilla element which then simply fills the power vacuum. The Kurds may have been worth backing and probably still are, but then what? the ME and the world for that matter has not been at true peace since roughly 2500 BCE.......It is an endless waltz my friend. If you are prepared to assist in fighting ISIS I am more than happy to pack up my weapons and find my way to Syria with you and I will fight by your side.

3. Yes, social media only serves to heighten tensions and raise emotions to boiling points. What we need to be asking ourselves is why? If we are going to choose to openly air our opinions why can there be no civil discourse, why must emotion, passion and anger be the responses. Is it a psychological impulse that when we enter our opinions and views into a social setting online that they must be validated for us to not grow angry, being a non user with the exception of professional connections on LinkedIn and posting here it is something I do not understand.

That last thing I ask you to consider, and perhaps others here can chime in on this peacefully. There are many in this community who have seen combat, I have not nor can i imagine the impact it has besides what it has done to my father. I have however seen the violence on the streets. I have seen people die, I have had the experience of sitting next to a young man no older than 17 trying to stop the bleeding from a wound inflicted in a drive by waiting for an ambulance to arrive, he later died. So I respectfully ask, have you seen this type of violence first hand? I know I don't want to see anymore nor do I want others to experience it. When you call for aggressive uprising you must understand that it is little more than a call to war. I personally sit here because if you want the change to happen burning down the system will not work it will only be replaced with similar chains made of different materials. A true strategy needs to be formed and a populace must be united to achieve this, something if you observe the powers at hand are trying very hard to stop from happening. It is my hopes that the better nature of humanity prevails but we are simply an evolution of tribal primates and that unfortunately this violence will occur in my life time, so I sit and wait for what my role in it will be and when that shall be revealed.

Much respect and Peace,
Tim

What has to come ? Will my heart grow numb ?
How will I save the world ? By using my mind like a gun
Seems a better weapon, 'cause everybody got heat
I know I carry mine, since the last time I got beat
MF DOOM Books of War

Training Masters: Carlos.Martinez3 and JLSpinner
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7 years 4 months ago #265585 by
Replied by on topic Nonviolence vs Activism
Thanks Tim,

I have seen my father die violently infront of me and my friends uncle knifed in the street. I called the ambulance but he was dead. Sorry answer isn't great length, using some dumb old PsVita

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7 years 4 months ago #265590 by Kobos
Replied by Kobos on topic Nonviolence vs Activism
Silas,

Length is never as important as substance. I apologize that you have had to be a part of that at a young age and with your Father, that brings me a great amount of sadness to hear. I wish I could relate to that experience, but I will not pretend I can.

I hope you understand my aversion to violence yet my understanding and preparation for such. It is a sad but very real part of the human condition. The US can be a pretty screwy place but in the end for all it's vices, wrongs, and corruptions; it also has it's freedoms, it's beauty and it's high points like any place. Though there are fundamental changes I would like to see happen, I have grown from a punk rock by any means needed person to understanding that there will be a time and a place, flash points exist and the come and go but when one lights it will become the responsibility of many of us to act and I know now that I have to watch for this and act according to my belief which will simply be to protect those whom will need it the most at least for now I believe that is my place.

Peace and respect,
Tim

What has to come ? Will my heart grow numb ?
How will I save the world ? By using my mind like a gun
Seems a better weapon, 'cause everybody got heat
I know I carry mine, since the last time I got beat
MF DOOM Books of War

Training Masters: Carlos.Martinez3 and JLSpinner
TB:Nakis
Knight of the Conclave

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7 years 4 months ago #265591 by
Replied by on topic Nonviolence vs Activism

Zenchi wrote:

Silas Mercury wrote: But look at the statistics.

. Cops are murdering blacks for no reason
. ISIS are beheading everyone
. Social media means hate and tension is rife

And we, "keepers of the peace" just sit here on our forums, occasionally having a peaceful protest. That gets you nowhere. With common sense gun control, aggresive riots could show evil and horrible people that the common people can and will if necessary defend their ideals by force of arms.



Ooh I soo wish I could upload a witty little cat meme right now, lol!

But I can't....
:(


this one ?

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7 years 4 months ago - 7 years 4 months ago #265626 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Nonviolence vs Activism
if you can present a logical argument as to what changes you want to see and why those changes should happen, then people will catch on

it takes time - it takes generations usually, although i think the internet will accelerate the process quite a bit

if you try to use violence to impose your agenda on society, the moderates and the reasonable people in the majority will oppose you without regard to the validity of your argument for the simple fact that your acts become more blatantly destructive than whatever issue it is youre fighting for

when i was an activist we were taught that our goal was to educate people to the issues and to persuade them through rational presentation of solid evidence

the first judgment that a person is going to make about your cause is not going to be a judgment about your cause at all, its going to be a judgment about you; how you appear and how you present and carry yourself

if your presentation is extreme, destructive, or just plain irrational, then even if you happen to right, (which youre not likely to be if this describes you) mature, rational people arent going to want to participate with you

a significant increase in civil violence would make more peoples live worse - way worse - than they currently are, and no one wants to play along with a solution that makes their personal life way worse

in a way you could think of activism as a kind of guerrilla warfare against a superior institution

the war of civil policy is waged intellectually, with ideas and information rather than with bullets and explosives

but there are similar principles involved
a rule of thimb for guerrilla groups is that they thrive or die as a result of the support of the local populace; if you alienate yourself from the general population, it will turn on you and you wont survive as a force of influence

so for your own survival it is better to rely on logical argument and rational presentation of evidence and facts

theres also the possibility that you might even be wrong, which if you relay principally on logical argument and objective evidence to justify and further your position, you might be able to adjust your views as time goes by so that they are more correct, and thus better for society

People are complicated.
Last edit: 7 years 4 months ago by OB1Shinobi.
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