Conflict vs Challenge

Khaos wrote:

But to me conflict seems to imply a complex of real uncertainty (ignorance), real risk (loss) and real sacrifice (waste)

Why such negative connotations?

Just trying to distinguish it from challenge. For some those things might be the antidote they seek.

what is "growth"?
will i get taller if i kick the crap out of a ten year old (there are a lot of ten year olds in my neighborhood and i think i can take a couple of them!)

what are the words, ideas, and specific, positive changes that are being assumed when we talk about "growth"

identifying the results we should be looking for would go a long way to answering the question

a few things i assume or imply if i use the word "growth" are:

general resilience
confidence
courage
perspective (improved understanding of self, others)
function under stess

what am i missing?

also, what kind of conflict are we talking about?
war?
arguing on the internet?
fist-fighting in local night clubs?
stabbing people in prison?
mentally dominating our family members?
sabotaging our coworkers?

i can think of all kinds of conflicts we might participate in

i had jiujitsu tonight; was it conflict?
or just competition?

we all wanted to "win" and we were definitely contending with one another, but we are also friends and we consider ourselves team mates, each of us training to become better but also investing in the improvement of the others

Goken wrote: Or am I just ridiculous for coming up with this and need to focus my time on other things? :laugh: (I suppose I could be right and still be ridiculous and in need of refocusing my time.)

Whether or not it is a waste of your time is something only you can answer.

Personally, I see little use in getting all tied up in the semantics of conflict vs challenge. I do think however, that it is important to think how we (each of us) can use instances of conflict/challenge in our lives to grow.

If I face an event in my life, whether I label it conflict or challenge seems less relevant than the choice I am faced with: will I whine about how life is unfair, how people or circumstances are against me, or will I act towards improving my life?

Manu wrote:

Goken wrote: Or am I just ridiculous for coming up with this and need to focus my time on other things? :laugh: (I suppose I could be right and still be ridiculous and in need of refocusing my time.)

Whether or not it is a waste of your time is something only you can answer.

Personally, I see little use in getting all tied up in the semantics of conflict vs challenge. I do think however, that it is important to think how we (each of us) can use instances of conflict/challenge in our lives to grow.

If I face an event in my life, whether I label it conflict or challenge seems less relevant than the choice I am faced with: will I whine about how life is unfair, how people or circumstances are against me, or will I act towards improving my life?

i appreciate the pragmatism

i think one way the question is relevant here is that if someone wants to take the position that "conflict breeds strength" then its kind of a green light for them to shoot their mouth off and treat everyone around them like crap

they even get to claim that its for everyone elses own good lol

i thinks its really just an ego rush; a clever way to stay undisciplined and vain, AND to get attention/create an identity by making oneself into a general nuisance

the problem so to speak is that it IS kind of a nuisance and everyone else kind of just gets stuck with it

i guess in the grand scheme of things thats not REALLY a problem, but in the relative sense ofthings a pain in the arse still a pain lol

Here is an alternate perspective.

Conflict is a test of your strength. Does your position or thought hold up or defeat an opposing position or thought. This will give you growth whether it does or does not hold up.

Challenge, is being able to change or manipulate the opposing position or thought to your side without creating the conflict. Again this can show growth.

It depends on what type of growth you are looking for.

Thank you everyone for your responses so far. I look forwards to seeing more. I have reflected a bit over the current responses (as much as one can in less than 24 hours since I first posted it) and have a few ideas on which I will reflect further.

I might want to rethink my ideas a bit on conflict vs challenge. I don't believe that I am necessarily wrong, just that maybe conflict doesn't have to carry as much of a negative connotation as I have given it.

When conflict does arise in a negative way it is possible that I have become too sensitive to it. This, I think is a bit of an over correction from my youth. I was rather combative and, as my wife so delicately puts it, I was an ass in high school (which is why we didn't date until college). It is possible that I am on the far extent of an over correction towards the politically correct side. I only hope that I can work towards finding a better middle ground between caring and not caring too much.

I should still view conflict and challenge as things from which I can learn and grow and change, though I will always prefer challenge.

Let me give another example of what I view as the difference between conflict and challenge. A conflict would be an actual fight. One person trying to hurt the other, even if they believe it might be for the other's benefit there's still one person trying to cause the other pain. A challenge would be more like being on American Ninja Warrior. Both can teach, both can hurt, but one has more malicious intent. I enjoyed Ob1's point about jujitsu class. That example seems to find some middle ground between my two ideas. Growing up a martial artist I like this example a lot and can relate quite well to it.

I guess when I'm talking about how we view them it's not so much on the receiving end that I worry about the difference, it's the person dishing it out that concerns me more. If I view it as conflict I'm more likely to be unnecessarily vicious. If I view it as a challenge I think more of how to better help the other person grow and inflict as minimal pain as possible. To use Ob1's sparring example if I'm sparring with a newer student and I go in with a more conflict oriented mind I might hurt them a bit too much, if I go in with a challenge oriented mind I am more likely to only push things to a point where they know they lost. I do this frequently in kickboxing by altering the strength of my strikes based on my partner. I will purposefully knock down the newer people so that they learn how to better stand, balance, and what actually hurts vs what just hits them but I know that I could hurt them more if I wanted to. I don't though because my lesson gets through just fine by knocking them down with little pain.

I enjoyed how Kyrin and I have exactly the opposite views on which one means what. :laugh: It continues to show me the limitations of human language and why we must try to be as clear as possible and not jump to conclusions to what the other person means. They could be saying something completely different than what we hear and it's up to both of us to come to an understanding.

Madhatter, the more we speak the more I believe we're just twins separated at birth. The only question is which of us is Arnold and which is Devitto. :laugh:

Conflict leads to the darkside.
Challenges, within reason, can lead to the lightside.
A challenge that becomes "too difficult" can become a conflict and...

Then this discussion can be taken to an other other - "no more problems" by martin Exeter. Its an amazing article.

It talks about shifting your perspective to perceive issues as "voids". They are blank spaces for solutions to flow in. You can be a conduit for that solution or you can simple hold the void until someone else comes along to fill it.

Void being the empty space that allows for something new to come it.

To do anything else, is to create conflict because the situation is not ready to move or let go just yet.

I find most people create or hold on to conflict because its additive and give purpose to life. Being angry feels powerful. That is why people like the darkside, they get to be angry.

If we perceived things as opportunities for growth or blockage that needs to be cleared, we might be able to face these conflicts with excitement and thankfulness.

Giving things time to move on their own can be helpful. Releasing the pressure or intensity of the moment by taking a break can allow creative solutions to arrive. Release the pressure, create the void and let the solutions flow on it.

I feel the TV show Babylon 5 did a great job exploring this subject.

A challenge becomes a conflict if you keep refusing to see it as a challenge , there is nothing wrong with either of them , except for the fact that i find challenges more inspiring and they give me strenght , as conflicts drain me and make me weaker in the end , sometimes a conflict becomes a challenge , but that takes a lot of my selfdiscipline, and sometimes i am lazy and watch the conflict escalate

Goken wrote: Do you think that there is a difference between "conflict breeds growth" and "challenge breeds growth?"

I think conflict is an opportunity for growth, like anything. But I dont think it implies or creates growth. How you deal with it, what you chose to take from it and what that changes for you is what creates growth.

Growth is a choice after all. You could have all the conflict in the world and chose to learn nothing from it. Many people do.