Balance (Break off from How to Resist the call to the dark)

Lykeios wrote: Are the negative things in life necessary to maintain a balance? Is it sometimes better to do something "bad" for the sake of maintaining some form of homeostasis?

my opinion is "no"

i understand balance as "not taking any particular thing further than is appropriate for the circumstances"
or to effectively and adroitly balance all of the conflicting demands and desires of the moment

an example might be someone in a diner orders a burger and the waiter brings a bowl of rice

one unbalanced response would be to eat the rice and not say anything because you feel awkward and its easier that way

thats a person who doesnt have enough assertive or aggressive or whatever

you might say its too much yin or not enough yang

another unbalanced response would be to personally insult the waiter and demand that the owner of the diner fire them

thats way too much yang or not nearly enough yin

i think it could be potentially harmful, psychologically, to run around attempting to be mean and hurtful to people just to balance out your inherent kindness

funnily enough though it doesnt quite work the other way: if youre kind of a jerk, its good to make a conscious effort to be easier on people

for anyone who is "too nice" i would say work on identifying those moments when youre being pushed over and figure out how you can start putting up some resistance

i like to think of it as "claws and paws"
most of the time we should be using our paws in our interactions with people, but sometimes we need to use the claws

balance is in knowing which is which and using the right amount of each

Lykeios wrote: EDIT: Here it is! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q

that was a very cool video, thank you for sharing it

We all have light and darkness inside of us, wich we choose to follow or ear makes us who we are. We jedi train to follow the light and ignore or conqueror the darkness, we are keepers of the peace, warriors of the light.

Vraell wrote: We all have light and darkness inside of us, wich we choose to follow or ear makes us who we are. We jedi train to follow the light and ignore or conqueror the darkness, we are keepers of the peace, warriors of the light.

And how do you go about "conquering darkness?"

The problem as I see it, there's a little too much emphasis on a need to "conquer" or ignore that shadow side of ourselves, and those said attempts can and usually are psychologically damaging. I think people misinterpret that other half, and are quick to cast some degree of judgment because of what is displayed in the movies, which is not really what we are about...

I've discovered "balance" by not overly identifying with one paradigm over the other, the whole light VS darkness schtick doesn't serve to bring an individual into balance but instead forces us to compartmentalize portions of our psyche, attempting to ignore entire aspects of ourselves in some vain attempt at "wholeness." It is my opinion that a sustained balance cannot be established in this manner.

What exactly is being asked here?

One thing that I've found is that as long as you are at war with yourself, you are broken.

As Zenchi said, it's a matter of assimilating the Shadow, as Jung called it, not finding new ways of surpressing it.

As for your mood swings, discarding the possibility of borderline bipolar personality, I would venture you can't really enjoy yourself if you do not let yourself feel. The swinging polarities are always more useful than the stoic middle.

Thank you Vraell for bringing this back up again. Things have been crazy here and this ended up dropping off my plate.

Thank you Goken, Steamboat, Edan, x57, OB1, Lykeios (sorry I haven't seen your video yet! Looking forward to it), Adder, Vraell, and Zenchi for your inputs. It was pretty reeling to discover that something I thought was a "fact", wasn't the whole of it lol.

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Vraell wrote: We all have light and darkness inside of us, wich we choose to follow or ear makes us who we are. We jedi train to follow the light and ignore or conqueror the darkness, we are keepers of the peace, warriors of the light.

I have to agree with Zenchi, Vraell. This view is problematic, and in the long term, damaging and dangerous. You end up with the very same problem I had when I started this thread. With the idea that since I have all these "dark" feelings, I must not be a 'good' Jedi/person which leads to frustration, and eventually breaking down, often giving up. It leads to wearing a mask. Because we think that everyone expects us to be this way. Then you look at everyone else's masks, thinking it's their face, and wondering why you can't be as good as them. I've seen this view in other faiths too.

You're not alone in thinking this way Vraell. It use to be my viewpoint for a very very long time. Experience showed me the issues with this kind of thinking. You're more than welcome to keep at it but please talk with someone if it doesn't go as planned. You're welcome to message me, I'm a good ear I promise I wont say "I told you so" or cast judgment. I'll just be a companionable listener maybe prod you with a few questions. I didn't have anyone to listen to me when I was younger, when I thought I was failing and not good enough (feelings that I still wrestle with today). I guess I just would caution you, and ask you to be mindful of these things.

Manu wrote: What exactly is being asked here?

One thing that I've found is that as long as you are at war with yourself, you are broken.

As Zenchi said, it's a matter of assimilating the Shadow, as Jung called it, not finding new ways of surpressing it.

The original question was a check on my view of balance. Basically I looked at it like a line I remember from math that'd look like this

Black===============White

And then to be in balance, you'd need to be standing right in the middle. So I didn't have a problem with accepting the black as much as the white, just that I needed to not swing too much either way.

Manu wrote: As for your mood swings, discarding the possibility of borderline bipolar personality, I would venture you can't really enjoy yourself if you do not let yourself feel. The swinging polarities are always more useful than the stoic middle.

I don't think I'm bipolar. That's what I've been feeling though, when I felt like I was in 'balance' I couldn't enjoy anything and that's why I was frustrated with my own view of it. I think the mood swings are probably more of a recovery method for everything going on in my life right now. I need to watch a few more to see if the theory is right.

It's like a friend of mine told me (I hope they don't mind me saying but it helped me and maybe it'll help someone else too) it's like a math problem. if balance equals 0, you can get there by 0+0+0+0+0=0, or you could get it with 3-5+6-2+1-3=0.

Not to derail a not to derail split off thread, but how does one balance something that is entire subjective and different from person to person? it must purely be based off how you perceive light and dark correct?

Taking some examples in this thread, taking care of a kitty cat might be considered a light action, killing it would be considered dark, and I'm sure a few would agree, but what about the predator that needs the prey for food. Is that dark or light? It can be seen both ways, the prey may say its dark, the predator may say its light, so how does one balance it?

I can bring that argument into a few hundred examples but more to the point, lightness and darkness being purely subjective for each person, isn't the question more about how you balance your perceptions far more then balancing your actions, as your actions will follow your perceptions? I think after spending the time I have and some recent studies that it is more about being in better control of your mind and more self aware of your thoughts and feelings and creating the choice to act on any said thoughts and feelings or not that would best bring you into more actual balance.

But this is all just my opinion, and its largely based on some of my recent studies so still kinda figuring this out myself.

Tellahane wrote: Not to derail a not to derail split off thread, but how does one balance something that is entire subjective and different from person to person? it must purely be based off how you perceive light and dark correct?

First off, one needs to cease identifying aspects of themselves as metaphors, life is never that simple, especially on the psychological level.

Taking some examples in this thread, taking care of a kitty cat might be considered a light action, killing it would be considered dark, and I'm sure a few would agree, but what about the predator that needs the prey for food. Is that dark or light? It can be seen both ways, the prey may say its dark, the predator may say its light, so how does one balance it?

Animals (as far as science can reveal) do not view things in term of metaphor's...

Humans have created this missrepresentation by confusing the harshness of life with morality and its oppisite. The challenge here is that most individuals have created identities wrapped around false perceptions behind these metaphors. The ego does this in a way akin to pointing a spotlight on a specific area in order to distract the self.

The core of anything related to achieving an "inner balance" would be imo getting to know the self, on every imaginable level. The quickest route to this is discipline. Not just physical, but mental discipline as well. It removes all illusion and It requires an honest look from within, and accepting everything revealed as a result. Then a person can build on their weak points. Self reflection and discipline will not work for everyone, some require psychological help.

I think many are not putting the correct focus on what balance actually means. Its not about looking outward and trying to judge events in the world as moral or not... balanced or not. We will never achieve any sort of satisfaction in doing this because from our subjective and limited point of view we can never comprehend the vastly intricate and complex interactions in creation that causes it to function as it does. Nature is indifferent and life is not designed to be fair. There is no master judge correcting "wrongs" or doling out "rights". So from our perspective we will never justify the balance in anything in life.

Instead the balance must come from within, through a process of looking inward. Accepting the things outside our control while striving for the best outcomes of the things within our control. When you internally balance yourself in this way the rest of the world will fall into step with that because it will change your perspective of it. We can never force the world into what we feel is a justified paradigm but we can shift our view of it by becoming impartial and dispassionate of ourselves. When we fine tune ourselves in this way an equitable reality comes into focus.

my personal experience has been this: its never, ever been good for me to be petty or back biting or vindictive or resentful or cowardly or bitter

ive always regretted it when ive allowed those parts of my personality to run the show

i cant help that certain emotions exist and that they surface from time to time
often i have spoken or acted out reflexively in anger or fear - and just as often i wish i hadnt, or at least wished i had been more restrained

we all have the potential to be real bastards if we choose to be, and yes thats an honest and real part of us but speaking for myself, just because its really a part of me doesnt mean that its any good for me, and i know because ive let my inner bastard be in charge plenty of times lol

those inner emotional parts of us are like muscles - the more you use a muscle the bigger it gets

some times we just feel a certain way, we dont need to think we're terrible simply because we have negative thoughts or feelings and we should basically give ourselves permission to feel whatever it is that we feel

but there is a point where we actively choose what parts of our inner selves to participate with or to identify with and to act from

the more we consciously choose to (foe example) be petty or resentful, the "bigger" that petty and resentful part of our personality becomes

its the tale of the two wolves that Zenchi mentioned earlier - there are base, mean little monsters in all of our inner worlds that constantly want to lash out
we can feed them if we choose to, but the overall result is that they will make us miserable and make the people around us miserable as well - and thats not a MAYBE, its a fact that these mean parts of us lead to misery for ourselves and for those close to us

you can make an argument that they serve useful purposes in limited situations
like you can say "well if someone is pushing you around then you have to get mean to stick up for yourself"
and i would say sure, do whatever you have to do to learn to stick up for yourself

but it doesnt actually require you to be generally bitter or resentful, it simply requires you to have some courage and some self respect in the moment when someone is putting you down

there are all kinds of potentials within us: some are weak and cruel and deceitful, but some are the "noble" parts of ourselves like courage and honesty, empathy and compassion, self control and thoughtfulness

sometimes nursing the anger can help you build up an emotional charge that you can draw on that in the moment, and if thats what you need to do then go for it, but understand that its just a way of building up courage when you dont have much already at hand

with repeated use/practice you wont need the bitterness, the courage itself will be there because the "positive" parts of us are also like muscles, and the more we use these muscles the bigger they get as well

these are regarded as superior because they more often result in more happiness and more life success and better relationships for everyone

i mean its an easy enough thought experiment: imagine a person who is always bitter and mean and shifty and petty and afraid

visualize your own average day and imagine what that mean little person would say and do in your place from circumstance to circumstance
then imagine the results after ten years of this life

now imagine a person who is unafraid, honest about who they are and what they want, and accepting and forgiving of themself and and of others
imagine that when this person acts out, it is with restraint and thoughtfulness (thoughtful as in "well thought out before hand")

imagine the life thats been developed after ten years of THAT

i dont put myself forward as the model of what this kind of maturity looks like

rather, as one who has gotten it wrong often and manages to get it right sometimes, i can tell you from personal experience that its better to get it right

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the two wolves