What can we "market" ?

This is interesting ... at least thought-provoking :



I'll ask you to lend a particular attention to the part, in the very beginning, when he reminds us that the defenders of capitalism (certainly the 19th century utilitarians) asserted that capitalism is the most assuring way of providing for human happiness on a grand scale, more really than "profit". That aspect is truly a deformation of the concept.

I'm still a little ambivalent about the idea of selling "friendship" and "caring" : it feels like we would be in danger of shifting our conviviality relationships into reciprocity ones. But there is a lot here worth mulling over ... Certainly in the sense that "profit" (thus competition) would not be the main focus.

So, let's have a go with it ...

I'm still a little ambivalent about the idea of selling "friendship" and "caring" : it feels like we would be in danger of shifting our conviviality relationships into reciprocity ones. But there is a lot here worth mulling over ... Certainly in the sense that "profit" (thus competition) would not be the main focus.

I feel a bit weary indeed about considering a sales pitch for friendmaking and doing that for caring feels like pimping it ,to a level that i dont want to enter really , but it does disect in a good way what we really want from a relationship and that is , ...that it is mutual ! No pain so painfull as being in love and its not answered ( most of the time that is , i am trying not to generalize) , when we see "caring" as a merchandise than the value of caring is changed into something that we always want something in return for as you said ...i find it difficult. A lot of things i can do for nought , but sometimes we do expect care back , we are not made of steel ...Thank you for posting this Alexandre , indeed something to mull over

The world, how it is made of ticky tacky, and what would we chew if we didn't have that? :lol:

Are you suggesting we take his advice Alex? I can see it now....

"EMPOWERMENT, ENLIGHTENMENT AND BLISS! All this can be yours at the Temple of the Jedi Order, Become a Jedi Today!!!"

:laugh:

:silly:

:dry:

Just messin with ya...

Zenchi wrote: The world, how it is made of ticky tacky, and what would we chew if we didn't have that? :lol:

Are you suggesting we take his advice Alex? I can see it now....

"EMPOWERMENT, ENLIGHTENMENT AND BLISS! All this can be yours at the Temple of the Jedi Order, Become a Jedi Today!!!"

:laugh:

:silly:

:dry:

Just messin with ya...

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

early proponents of communism thought it would result in equality

comparing the two, i would say capitalism has come closer to increasing general happiness than communism has come to increasing general equality, but either way, i dont really blame people for not being able to predict the full range of either system's consequences

...thoughts that cross my mind when i watch...

i think he is contributing to a trend towards establishing "meaning" as an explicit cultural value

he is attempting to associate commerce with meaning-i think thats great

when he talks of "selling" the top of maslows pyramid, the assumption is that we buy with cash, but just as friendship is a "commodity" we may want to purchase, so it is also one we might be able to offer

i like what he says about service

in addition to the point about the way that working for a large company can render moot the feeling of being of service, i would add that many of us are disillusioned with companies in general because we see that the dark side of corporate influence has done so much harm in so many ways
theres a sharp edge of exploitativeness to commerce and many of us are cynical about service because we see that we will serve an ungrateful master, and also we feel there is little to out there serve that is genuinely worthy of our full dedication

there is a real risk of serving until you are used up, and then being left hanging, by a company that is run by people who are happy to toss us all under the bus for a buck

"what we need above all is a thread connecting our position with the positions of others"

i think being "systematically trained in love" is a great idea, sign me up lol

What We Can Market?

well i would say for totjo its less about what is marketed than what is simply available here for those who care to participate

i think the "product" here (community, growth, and learning) sells itself

---

EDIT

"what we need above all is a thread connecting our position with the positions of others"

i meant to say more on this: the need to be of service is a legitimate need, but there is a balance here imo because we need to be of service in a way that is also clearly benefiting us personally also

and when he associates this need with "meaning" then we agree that "benefit" has got to include more than simply payment

i think that the basic thing being hit on here is "what is my role within my society?"

in the perfect world, we can achieve roles that we are good at, from within which we feel good about how we contribute to society, and which offer us the ability to constantly grow and improve ourselves as individuals

also, being challenged in a way that is just at the limit of our abilities is really important- too much and we cannot do it, then we feel like failures

too little and we get bored and begin to kind of despise our schedule

That is a great commentary, Ob1 ... Just for clarity, when I titled this thread "What can we "market" ?", I didn't really mean the "we" there to mean "the TotJO." It is merely a "we" as in 'as a civilisation', as a 'social' and 'merchandising' species, as 'humans'.

I really appreciated what he had to say about service too. No one likes the idea of getting paid to "ne rien foutre". 'Tis also why HR departments - and their psychological support sectors - are taking a close look at a phenomenon related to 'burn-out', which they are calling 'bore-out'. This, as the name implies, is just when people find nothing stimulating nor interesting about their work without necessarily being totally grilled by it. All in all, I don't know too much about it.

I'm still pretty ambivalent, if not highly sceptical, of the commercialisation of the upper rungs of Maslow's Hierarchy. It just seems that "subscribing" to friends and confidents is stomping out the last bit of our humanity. It is already the case that many people engage in mutual usage arrangements which they feel are authentic relationships -- until, of course, one or the other needs to extend empathy and compassion, just some good, deep human understanding ... then it goes to hell. We want our friends to be "fun" and ... like he talked about, "cheery" :sick: Moreover, the farther up the Hierarchy one goes, the more expensive the services would be - if deliverable at all as merchandise. Maslow's uptake on Self Actualisation was none other than what Jung had called the Meeting with the Self (Individuation). Read as such, I don't see how that is going to engender integrity in anyone to pay a company to lay out their "hero's journey" for them.

Would that be a sort of existential travel agency ? Or just a form of brothel ?

I'm getting really tired and silly now ... so I'll just leave this off for now.

Would that be a sort of existential travel agency ? Or just a form of brothel ?

Thats what i meant with pimping it , what are we going to pimp out next .. is not love to sacred to pimp out to commerce ?

The benefit of capitalism is its capacity to adapt to uncertainty, relate to risk, and allow growth and innovation to emerge but its weakness is it appeals and empowers the opposite if we let it... waste and want. So his idea of focus is good, because it addresses that personal interaction with effort and economy, but I think the workplace is usually too competitive for it work, but yes it would be better I reckon!!! He doesn't really address that elephant in the room I don't think, how empathy is often a vehicle for manipulation - especially in a competitive environment. I guess the required assumption then is to be 'genuine' in its application and not just as a shallow survival mechanism.

" the defenders of capitalism (certainly the 19th century utilitarians) asserted that capitalism is the most assuring way of providing for human happiness on a grand scale, more really than "profit"

I'm a capitalist. It may help you securing comfort but that isn't necessary the same as happiness. Happiness is being comfortable with what you have. What I just said has it limits but it does illustrate happiness come from within.

Capitalism is just a stage in human evolution. Capitalism is about profit. At what cost is the devil in the details.

I find myself a little put off by the idea that we should market what people are really searching for: Happiness, Friendship, Connection, etc. I mean that we should work to buy those things. But we already do in the form of commodities that expire (candy bars, laundry detergent, hamburgers).

The hamburgers, candy laundry detergent etc are a mask for what we really want, and their work is so insidious that we don't see it when we see the add on the television or we see the poster in the supermarket or we see the billboard. We have become so inundated with adverts that they and what they push us to buy are a natural part of daily existence

I liked what Alain de Buton had to say about it, but then he has a peculiar philosophy that is easy to understand, if not always agree with.

We can market anything. See your average snake oil salesman. That, however, does not mean we should.

I did like his last bit about the work environment and the "madness" of all of us. I think that we need to come in to the work place with that as our frame of reference otherwise we will end up with different expectations than we ought to have about our work day, our workmates and our work in general