Desiderata

JamesSand wrote: Outside of orwellian dystopias, there is little consequence for belief or lack of belief - more for conducting the physical and observable acts or phrases that have become tied to a belief.

point taken! Being able to think without others knowing what you're thinking is one of the greatest gifts of nature Even within a religious belief system, the notion of what exactly is the divine varies hugely. Attempts to clearly define and make one specific definition the only "true" one usually end in violence. That's why I think that not requiring / giving a "clear" definition of the Force in Jediism is one of its strengths and not one of its weaknesses - even though onlookers will sometimes claim that Jediism can't be a religion because there's no clear definition of the divine.

I liked it. I suppose it has some good advice. I don't know that I completely agree with it's wholly positive view of the world though. The world is a mixed up place where bad things often happen. Life is hard. Don't get me wrong, I try to maintain a positive outlook at all times, but I'm also aware of the negative things. The poem(?) does mention these negative things but I felt it was only in passing as if the negative things are not often prominent.

Well... on the surface of it, the poem seemed quite good.

But when I read it through a second time, I found that there were quite a few things I actually disagreed with, and it felt rather like I was being told to avoid things that were too difficult, and that others don't think are appropriate.

If someone asked me to suggest to them a poem about how to live well, I'm not sure I'd be suggesting this one.

im on the opposite side if the spectrum from Edan; i love the Desiterata. i think it is beautiful and that there is a useful idea in every single line (even if i dont always live up to them lol)

Wow, what a long discussion about a divergence in views. I'd advise you to all be careful. Even not believing in god can become a form of religion in itself and become dogmatic. When you ascribe absolute truth to something like religion (or the religion of non-religion), you run the very real risk of becoming obtuse to all other possibilities and opinions. Religion is best taken as metaphor, and if the author chooses to believe the metaphor of Christianity, why should that ruin the essay? Do the teachings of the Tao, or Upanishads, or Jediism for that matter, lose their worth because they ascribe to a particular truth? It may be just my opinion, but I believe there's value and wisdom to be found everywhere we look, if we're willing to put aside our personal biases and really look for, and at, it.


I could also be completely wrong, so take this with salt as needed.

As for the OP, I love the poem. It's basically saying, remember to take some time out for yourself, don't be a d&^*, avoid people that are d*&^s, some people will try to get over on you, so be cautious, Don't be a poser, and most of all, be honest with yourself and at peace with whatever you need to be at peace with, be it yourself or a higher power.

At least that's how I'd laymenize (Look Ma, I made up a word :woohoo: ) it.

Are some of you blind or so narrowly focused on the word god to miss the blessings of this message?

Open your minds!

..........That's why I think that not requiring / giving a "clear" definition of the Force in Jediism is one of its strengths and not one of its weaknesses - even though onlookers will sometimes claim that Jediism can't be a religion because there's no clear definition of the divine.

Oh yes. I'd argue that other religions don't really have a firm grasp on a definition of God either. At least the Catholics are honest about it and call it a mystery. Trying to define something that goes beyond our ability to vocalize is a futile effort at best, and once you define and categorize it, it tends to lose its metaphorical meaning and so loses its transformative potency.

Cyan Sarden wrote: He had me until the 'God' line. The whole poem is beautifully assuring and even soothing - lots of good advice about how to tread lightly, how to avoid causing ripples and repercussion in causality. But then bam - all messed up. While I'm not a believer, I'm also not saying there is no 'God' (I wouldn't know) but the poem stipulates maturity, choice and self-determination and the presumption that a deity is present to control things negates all of that again.

Cyan, it says "whatever you perceive that to be".

Allowing yourself to be tripped up and to miss a potentially valuable lesson because of one word is unwise.

What do you perceive god to be? I'm an atheist, and even I have an idea of what I would call "god". Even if it's just chance, the economy, atoms or human nature, there is something you can plug into that identity to make it useful.

but the poem stipulates maturity, choice and self-determination and the presumption that a deity is present to control things negates all of that again.

I don't read it that way at all. The poem is saying to make peace with the game of chance, and own that sometimes failure is an inevitability despite your best efforts. I find that comforting in a strange sort of way.