Satanist Leads Invocation at Alaskan Assembly Meeting

These...yahoo's are not attempting to spread the good word of religious freedom, that's not what this is about, it's propaganda, and it's sad. They're constantly attempting to push their agenda of "Religious freedom" when what their really doing is gathering attention for their own business, which is what they are, a business. This idea is nothing new, people have been doing this for years, and unfortunately the gullible seem to eat the candy every time.

Religious freedom is a good idea, its an excellent model for society, but religion itself (in any form) should not be forcing itself in any public establishment that it itself is seperate from, period. That also goes for Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, whatever.

The way to religious freedom isn't forcing down everyone's throats, just because followers from other religions having been doing it for thousands of years doesn't equate to it being a fair and just practice. Removing all religion from public establishments that essentially have nothing in relation needs to be the first step. Force here is not the answer, but a total removal of church from state....

You're mostly right about that, Zenchi -- but then you've gone and done exactly what I'm figuring that most people will do : that is, understanding "religion" as a "particular" or "particular religions," as per how we have come to conceptualise "religion." "Particular religions" are not what religion is. Religion is so intimately personal that it cannot be expressed in a doctrine or a credo. It certainly can't take on positions or up arms. Religion is how one's phenomenal, existential self-ness can make a contemplative crossing of that barrier "I/Not-I". Religion is the '/'.

I most certainly agree with you, there ought be no Church, no official, compulsory prescribed authority by any social organisation (that is to say "politics"). On the other hand, to try to render our social organisations sterile through logical objectivity (thus making objects, or quanta, of peoples' lives) would be just as dangerous as imposing a "particular" State religion. As we saw in the Socialist experiments of the last century : trying to impose transparency, atheism and equality just lead right back to secrecy, Orthodoxy and inequality/injustice. Goulags, work-camps, exterminations and wilder salary differences than ever in any modern nation ... Nothing got farther away from Socialist ideals as did the U.S.S.R. ...

So, it is not that State needs a Church, but that we might ponder the value of States emphasising "religion" (NOT a "particular" religion), that being the fostering of emotions and some transcendental aspirations into our politico-economic infrastructures. That is probably better for avoiding - or at least mitigating - the proclivities of 'religious' (sic) fundamentalists.

CAMPBELL: That is in fact what we had better do. But my notion of the real horror today is what you see in Beirut. There you have the three great Western religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam -- and because the three of them have three different names for the same biblical god, they can't get on together. They are stuck with their metaphor and don't realize its reference. They haven't allowed the circle that surrounds them to open. It is a closed circle. Each group says, "We are the chosen group, and we have God."

Look at Ireland. A group of Protestants was moved to Ireland in the seventeenth century by Cromwell, and it never has opened up to the Catholic majority there. The Catholics and Protestants represent two totally different social systems, two different ideals.

MOYERS: Each needs a new myth.

CAMPBELL: Each needs its own myth, all the way. Love thine enemy. Open up. Don't judge. All things are Buddha things. It is there in the myth. It is already there.

~The Power of Myth, p. 28

Alexandre Orion wrote: As Alan Watts points out, in the Christian tradition, Jesus sits at the right hand of God. but who sits at His left ?

Now THAT idea spins me around a bit! Love it!

Alexandre Orion wrote: You're mostly right about that, Zenchi -- but then you've gone and done exactly what I'm figuring that most people will do : that is, understanding "religion" as a "particular" or "particular religions," as per how we have come to conceptualise "religion."

I dont make the mistake, (or assumption) that religion is to be "lumped" together for the sake of discussion, that's a different discussion altogether and I did not want to derail, my efforts for trying sometimes end up resulting in a misunderstanding at the attempt of someone else attempting to make a point, but I digress.

I get that religion is a very personal thing, just as it is personal to me as a Dark Pagan. I however do not wish my religion or anyone elses to be forced upon display in a public establishment such as a state office. The satanic temple is now attempting to shove their agenda into the schools. Where does it stop? I'm in no way against Satanism, was a memeber of the Church of Satan for ten years, which by the way is also extremely against these jokers pushing their public circus...

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

Alexandre Orion wrote: As Alan Watts points out, in the Christian tradition, Jesus sits at the right hand of God. but who sits at His left ?

Now THAT idea spins me around a bit! Love it!

Holy Trinity, so I thought it was obvious.

Father, Son, Holy Ghost.

I suppose it could be interpreted as something else though.

Irrelevant in any case. To think it wouldnt have stirred some kind of controversy is silly.

At least Lavey, was open about being a showman as part and parcel of his Satanism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpaN6YIf5PI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1EXeurb4lI

Zenchi wrote: These...yahoo's are not attempting to spread the good word of religious freedom, that's not what this is about, it's propaganda, and it's sad. They're constantly attempting to push their agenda of "Religious freedom" when what their really doing is gathering attention for their own business, which is what they are, a business. This idea is nothing new, people have been doing this for years, and unfortunately the gullible seem to eat the candy every time.

I'm so glad we have you to enlighten us with your god-like insight into the hearts of others, even though it contradicts everything TST has said publicly and on their website and their track record.

Zenchi wrote: Religious freedom is a good idea, its an excellent model for society, but religion itself (in any form) should not be forcing itself in any public establishment that it itself is seperate from, period.

Zenchi wrote: That also goes for Christianity

Fixed it for you.

Zenchi wrote: The way to religious freedom isn't forcing down everyone's throats, just because followers from other religions having been doing it for thousands of years doesn't equate to it being a fair and just practice. Removing all religion from public establishments that essentially have nothing in relation needs to be the first step. Force here is not the answer, but a total removal of church from state....

Nobody's being forced Satanism because of TST's actions, I'm pretty sure you're thinking of Christians shoving Christianity down everyone's throats (plus they do a pretty good job of trying to control what people think about other religions too). There is not a day that goes by when I go out in public that I don't get some sort of propaganda for Christianity thrown in my face. TST doesn't evangelize. If you listen to the invocation you'd notice the majority of it isn't even Satanic.

This thread is beginning to sound like an echo chamber of ignorance. People thinking they have some special insight into this when I, as a member of TST, am sitting right here telling you why and you just go on flapping your gums exhaling dung heaps upon dung heaps of foolishness. Unbelievable.

I'm so glad we have you to enlighten us with your god-like insight into the hearts of others, even though it contradicts everything TST has said publicly and on their website and their track record.

I've been aware of this racket for quite some time actually, and wasn't really interested in what they're selling. There's a good reason why their former leader Brian Werner stepped down, something about unprofessionalism seeping into the business and bleeding hearts left a bad taste in his mouth, lol.

Nobody's being forced Satanism because of TST's actions, I'm pretty sure you're thinking of Christians shoving Christianity down everyone's throats (plus they do a pretty good job of trying to control what people think about other religions too). There is not a day that goes by when I go out in public that I don't get some sort of propaganda for Christianity thrown in my face. TST doesn't evangelize. If you listen to the invocation you'd notice the majority of it isn't even Satanic.

You pretty much made my arguement for me with this statement, thanks lol.

This thread is beginning to sound like an echo chamber of ignorance. People thinking they have some special insight into this when I, as a member of TST, am sitting right here telling you why and you just go on flapping your gums exhaling dung heaps upon dung heaps of foolishness. Unbelievable.

Right, because someone who actually knows what these hucksters are really about managed to speak up, happy to be of assistance lol. The official Church of Satan has publicly denounced these clowns, that "should" provide most with an understanding as to the unprofessional mentality leading the Satanic Temple, but then again, some people prefer the circus...



https://satanicviews.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/leader-resigns-from-satanic-temple/

I've seen many different Satanic groups over the years (and been a part of a few of them, including some questionable ones)... I don't always agree with the methods that the Satanic Temple use (e.g. the 'Red Mass' or whatever it was called), but it makes a change for Satanists to actually be speaking out. There is inequality out there, and it is very common for Satanists to be very insular and just 'do what they do' without really thinking about what is going on in the outside world. Satan is the challenger and, for better or for worse, the Satanic Temple have taken that to heart.

I like the tenets on their website, and the people on the site generally seem well adjusted.. not agreeing with them doesn't make them hucksters, though you're entitled to that opinion, Zenchi. I have always disliked the Church of Satan's circus, and I'm not much of a fan of their literature either, but I can see that what they do works for them.

The irony about what the Satanic Temple do is that by shining a light on themselves, those Christians who would treat others differently have made fools of themselves. One example I can think of is the lady that kicked down the Satanic Nativity. As a Satanist myself I find the idea of a Satanic Nativity ridiculous, but the point it was trying to make was made... that things are not all equal when it comes to religion and politics.

What I've never quite understood is all the iconoclasm ...

As is were, whether one's feelings be to one side or the other of the Fall, whether one is partisan to one side or the other in the War in Heaven, it is the very same myth and the same set of symbols.

As it were, the War isn't over and Heaven was never truly sealed : Angels keep falling, and some of the Fallen Ones have managed to get themselves back up out of Phlagethon to sing Pandemonivm into Being. Magical sciences and scientific magic with a bunch of dazzling maths to entertain ! Who are you ? and What do you want ? agree to have a fight ...

It seems ironic that after so many centuries, atom spitting and intersidéral exploration that anyone would still howl about heresy. Same symbols, same myths... and again, not singular, not multiple ...

Khaos wrote:

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

Alexandre Orion wrote: As Alan Watts points out, in the Christian tradition, Jesus sits at the right hand of God. but who sits at His left ?

Now THAT idea spins me around a bit! Love it!

Holy Trinity, so I thought it was obvious.

Father, Son, Holy Ghost.

I'm kind of enjoying the idea that the "holy ghost" might in fact the be "devil" character. It works in as many ways as it doesn't, really.

Also, humans are the ones who invented the trinity concept, complete with our limited brains and ridiculously limited ideas about what gods could ever be. Maybe it's a quadrality, maybe there are billions of figures, maybe what we think is god's voice is just dust blowing over a rock in the desert somewhere. Who knows?

It's fun to think about sometimes when you're between doing actual things that matter. As long as you don't get stuck on it