Who 'owns' culture? Does anyone?

I know we've had a similar discussion here before....I just read this article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/12207152/Black-woman-attacks-dreadlocked-white-man-over-cultural-appropriation.html

This is an extract from the article:

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And then there's this article from back in January... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/news/beyonc-criticised-for-cultural-appropriation-in-new-music-video/

It seems that in a multi-cultural society lines are being blurred over to what is culture and who 'owns' it (if it's possible to own a culture).

I live in the UK and people of all backgrounds wear dreadlocks... I've never come across anyone here who believes it to be cultural appropriation.

Is there a line that should be drawn, or should there be some acceptance that cultures are no longer as clear cut as they used to be.

This can be a sensitive topic, so please keep it civil.

My take on the subject is that if no harm is done, we have the right to do as we please.

I believe in equal rights. So it makes no sense to scorn someone for exercising the same right I have.

The best answer I can come up with is that no one "owns" culture. There are simply patterns, usually dominated by the majority race. The more other cultures mix with that majority and are no longer the minority, the more it changes and "ownership" shifts.

Though the US is a majority of white people, that will most likely not be the case for much longer. ("longer" being a relative term)

Ultimately I imagine this country and other countries being a melting pot. Eventually we'll all have a wide variety of ancestral backgrounds. I know I do. The remake of The Time Machine movie, shows how in the distant future everyone essentially being of a light shade of brown skin color. Just something to think about.

Unless you invent or build it, you do not own it. In that video that women committed assault and should face legal and academic punishment as a result. No one has the right to attack a person over something they do not like. Further no one has the right to dictate to someone else what they can or cannot wear, can or cannot use, or say. You do not own another person to dictate these things to them.
Frankly most cultural things are cross cultural any how. For example the dreadlocks in question were also of Egyptian origin as stated but further my ancestors the Celts wore them. So truly no one can own such a thing. This is a case of victim mentality turning into bullying.

I like to believe that culture is owned by the "collective unconscious", or rather all of humanity extending back to the first days we began to express ourselves through culture. However, I am born into a very blended society, and have nothing to call "my own" other than hints of a German heritage. Perhaps if I was much more ingrained into a specific culture, I would have a different bone to pick. Would this mean that I have a right to make a conflict over "culture violation" or would it mean that I have a duty to expand my horizons?

However I agree with Goldstein that some cultural elements are traditionally used for a very official/spiritual purpose (the Native American head dress, for example). Using this for any other purpose would be disrespectful, in my eyes.

I think of humans of all colors and cultures as part of the one human race and that each culture like religion is just an expression of the traditions and characteristics of a people from a certain part of the world at a particular time. So for me I don't think anyone owns a culture and if a culture appeals to someone and they want to incorporate it into how they express themselves, why not?

There are some strange people who are obvious culture vultures, where they copy everything and try to mimic a certain culture to an extreme, like white people who dress, talk and act like black gangsters - now that is just ridiculous and if someone calls them out on that sure. Another funny thing are people who pretend to be military, are completely out of shape, and over exaggerate the use of terms and style - like the apocalypse preppers who pack a huge bag full of crap they don't know how to use and think they're going to run into the woods and survive.

Then again, if none of the vultures are truly in people's face about it and nobody is getting hurt, who really cares? I think this is kind of like what Yabu's thread was about the divide and conquer stuff because lately in the media there's all the black vs white hysterical nonsense. I think that girl is just like the black lives matter tools and has nothing better to do than project her own problems on other people, especially because dreadlocks are so freaking popular today and just looking at the Wiki page they cross pretty much every culture: Hunduism, Buddhism, Judaism and Christianity, Africa and of course Rastafari. Typical race baiting, self righteous, play the victim, dindu nufin type to get attention and 'get back at Whitey' "why you filming this?" yeah great example of how a lot of similar people act right now in that whole arena.

Lightstrider wrote: There are some strange people who are obvious culture vultures, where they copy everything and try to mimic a certain culture to an extreme, like white people who dress, talk and act like black gangsters - now that is just ridiculous and if someone calls them out on that sure.

Do you think though that at some point that becomes part of their culture? What if those people grew up in majority black neighbourhoods and that was the culture of that neighbourhood?

Why should something be ridiculous if they find meaning within it themselves?

These are just questions

Edan wrote:

Lightstrider wrote: There are some strange people who are obvious culture vultures, where they copy everything and try to mimic a certain culture to an extreme, like white people who dress, talk and act like black gangsters - now that is just ridiculous and if someone calls them out on that sure.

Do you think though that at some point that becomes part of their culture? What if those people grew up in majority black neighbourhoods and that was the culture of that neighbourhood?

Why should something be ridiculous if they find meaning within it themselves?

These are just questions

I know people who actually have grown up in those neighborhoods and that is just who they are so yeah I do think it is part of their own culture. I guess I should have specified the surburban kids who come from good families who just mimic the rap. To me that's a little ridiculous but hey, even if those kids find meaning within it themselves all power to them but say if in that video the black girl was calling out some rich little white kid for literally imitating what he sees from the music videos and stuff, she would be a little more justified in my eyes but that's just me and even then if the kid wasn't hurting anyone I wouldn't care anyways. I may be annoyed by someone like that but it's really none of my business.

we are what it made us and it is what we make it

people who dont have a sense of their own identity -- need one

that process involves mistakes

i say, try not to begrudge children their mistakes, they usually dont mean them or even understand that they are making them

obviously this is not the same as people who "cash in" on others cultures, by pretending to be Shamans for hire for instance

although i would even say that as distasteful as this is, in some cases they too are children, trying to find themselves

Indian Yogi's and Yogini's have been sporting dreadlocks for a loooong time.

I reckon civilizations movement into globalization means we sort of have to loosen the reins a bit on this topic. I tend to draw the line at authenticity. Originating cultures can and should protect their claim of authenticity, but I'm less sold on that they should extend that to all expression of the culture. Basically, if someone looks like something its not, then its ok, but if something claims to be something its not, then that is not ok.

One thing that is important to remember is that we don't know everyone's background. My fiance has a good amount of Native American in her and you can only sort of tell. She's a little darker than I do but it mostly looks like she just gets more sun. So if she's wearing something Native American and a person freaked out on her it would be unfair. Or like the conversation Edan and Lightstrider had about someone who grows up with that culture even if they aren't "genetically" from that culture. We can't know everyone's story so we shouldn't assume.

Also, I believe that culture is more about where you are from than your DNA. As an American I should probably do more to learn about and support Native American culture. It came from where I did, right?

Notice that I said learn in there. If I'm going to be doing something just because I think it looks cool I do feel like I should understand it's origins. But that's just me. It's something that I think everyone should do but who am I to tell them that they have to.

If you do it, it's your culture.

Imo the SJWs who think culture is linked to race/dna -and based on the previous similar discussion we have plenty of them at TOTJO- are just a bunch of racists. It'd be as if I forbade people who don't look like me from using technology developed by people who look like me. And not just technology. Want democracy? Better be white, because the "white race" patented this 2500 years ago....

And how do you define the groups anyway? for democracy, is it just Cleisthenes' family? Just athenians? Greeks? Europeans? All whites? Do turks and arabs count as white? What about hispanics, I'd always thought of them as white next door neighbours, but english speakers seem to think they're a different race, Are they culturally misappropriating democracy?

The dreadlock thing makes me laugh though. Any white person who does not use shampoo or scissors will have dreadlocks.

I don't think blood determines your culture, although it usually plays some part. My genetic makeup puts me primarily with the Irish, however I identify very little with that culture.

I also have a very small amount of Cherokee blood in me, and identify far more strongly with that culture. This is primarily because while my bloodline is stronger in the Irish mix than it is in the Cherokee mix, my native american heritage was put in the spotlight as the main focus growing up.