All Nonviolent Drug Use and Possession Should Be Decriminalized

This just came up in my news-feed. Hawaii Considers Becoming the First State to Decriminalize ALL Drugs
Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/hawaii-state-decriminalize-drugs/#sqxp60CjvZztu35B.99

I just wanted to throw in my two cents quickly, as I find the topic of discussion very interesting.

I guess I shouldn't say 'my two cents', as my real contribution is the video I've linked below. It served to educate me on this topic though, and provided an amazing insight into drug programs in other countries that I did not know of. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.


After watching it, I actually started to do research of my own, and truly see the value in "Harm Reduction" based systems.

Akkarin wrote:

Wes wrote: Look, long story short, there is nothing that someone that uses drugs can tell me that will sway me the other direction.

A closed mind is as unhealthy as taking drugs :whistle:

Devil's advocate: I'm not going to listen to anyone who is against taking drugs because they're too emotionally invested in the subject to provide an unbiased opinion.

And I immediately wrote to explain...

Why? Because I believe they are at a conflict of interests. I do not know if they are putting their own selfish desire to get high above the good of the community.

I don’t know why I bother writing to explain what I say when people are just going to take it out of context and pervert it to try and make what I said look bad. :whistle:

I could take pot shots all day, but I am choosing to take the higher road, pun intended.

Wescli Wardest wrote:

Akkarin wrote:

Wes wrote: Look, long story short, there is nothing that someone that uses drugs can tell me that will sway me the other direction.

A closed mind is as unhealthy as taking drugs :whistle:

Devil's advocate: I'm not going to listen to anyone who is against taking drugs because they're too emotionally invested in the subject to provide an unbiased opinion.

And I immediately wrote to explain...

Why? Because I believe they are at a conflict of interests. I do not know if they are putting their own selfish desire to get high above the good of the community.

I don’t know why I bother writing to explain what I say when people are just going to take it out of context and pervert it to try and make what I said look bad. :whistle:

I could take pot shots all day, but I am choosing to take the higher road, pun intended.

In my experience -- living in "brew city" -- the fact that marijuana, heroin, cocaine, LSD, magic mushrooms, etc. are illegal doesn't stop people from taking them. In most parts of the city you can casually walk into a bar and find someone to sell you whatever you want. The legal status of these substances does not deter those who enjoy taking them, and it is not difficult at all to get them. So I'm not sure where the idea that a drug user wanting drugs to be legal is connected to their desire to take that drug comes from. Actually, as we've seen with marijuana in the states which have legalized it, additional taxes/fees makes buying a legalized substance more expensive than buying it on the street. The drug users simply don't stand to benefit in that way from legalization.

I can tell you this: it is my estimate that legalizing drugs would significantly decrease gang-based crime and death, allow for substantial money to be put into our country through taxation which can go towards funding better education, healthcare, or rehabilitation services, decrease likelihood of overdose (especially for those interested in psychedelics -- the presence of research chemicals being sold as "LSD" has resulted in more than a few deaths), and if any other country's history is a good indicator, will result in lower crime rates in general. There would never be a case where a victim of sexual assault would be hesitant to report his or her assault due to he or she being under the influence of an illegal substance during the assault, as is clearly the case in the lives of so many people today. To be regulated like alcohol -- with bans on driving under the influence, bans on taking substances in public areas (outside of bars, homes, etc), bans on public intoxication, etc. -- would result in safe drug use and overall would benefit our country more than a ban on these substances.

Wescli Wardest

...

Look, long story short, there is nothing that someone that uses drugs can tell me that will sway me the other direction.

...

Why? Because I believe they are at a conflict of interests. I do not know if they are putting their own selfish desire to get high above the good of the community.

So If I make a post in favor of a particular drug policy you won't consider it but if someone else posts the exact same thing and you believe they don't use drugs you will? How do you know if someone uses drugs or not when you read an article, an editorial or study?

Yes people are biased. They can also want something that's good for them and good for others too. You're making a classic Argumentum Ad Hominem.

http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/person.html

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_hominem

Akkarin wrote: One of the biggest myths about addiction is that substances have the quality "addictive". They don't. Does anyone here enjoy sex? Well what about sex addicts? Addiction is a psychological state of mind. Some things are more prone to having people addicted to them, but if addiction is a problem put money into treatment instead of enforcement.

Some drugs actually cause substance dependence, instead of just a purely psychological reaction. Let me give you an example, try to explain it like my professors and colleagues did: A psychiatrist prescribes a woman suffering Major Depressive Disorder an upper, let's say Concerta. She takes it for two years, then changes psychiatrists, who immediately take her off the medication and start shoving SSRIs at her like they're smarties. If the patient is smart, two things happen: one, she leaves the new doctor immediately to find someone with some form of intelligence instead of a blasé one-size-fits-all approach, and two, she asks to taper the drug instead of quitting cold-turkey. This is intelligent because when you inflict a man-made chemical onto the brain, and it tries to self-regulate in response, sometimes the brain/endocrine system/etc stops doing whatever that chemical is now controlling. For instance, the body stops producing the correct amount of the chemical that would naturally boost dopamine levels in the brain (Not that the person's natural responses were enough before, but it's commonly seen to be degraded significantly after such an event, apparently.)

Not all of it is ''just psychological''. Generalisations always seem to end up limiting information

Some drugs will cause physical dependence. This is often confused with addiction or even used interchangeably.

The Difference Between Addiction And Physical Dependence
By Gregory Myers on Thursday, December 12, 2013

http://knowledgenuts.com/2013/12/12/the-difference-between-addiction-and-physical-dependence/


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http://abcnews.go.com/Health/LivingWithPain/story?id=4052253

http://projects.hsl.wisc.edu/GME/PainManagement/session6.3.html

I wrote an entire, beautifully worded post. Then I was felined, and my page was forcibly refreshed. (sigh) I'm going to shorten down my answer here.

That's part of what I was referring to. Not many people know, nor understand, the difference. Also, both leave issues better helped by professionals than prisons. It's also more cost-effective (http://www.justicepolicy.org/uploads/justicepolicy/documents/jpi_addicted_to_courts_factsheet_final.pdf)

Next point: Many police aren't trained to handle mental health issues, and a lot of mental health issues are overlooked and/or ignored due to bias built up trying to protect the city. I gave a few really good examples of interactions I'd had with people brought in when I used to work at a behavioural health center and a couple of stories of my own experiences, but I'm going to boil it down to this: One, cops are usually biased against drugs heavily because of the other kinds of crimes that are usually linked to such things. Two, mental health awareness isn't really all that great. People are still shamed for the concept of having a mental illness, and it's not a ''get well soon'' but ''just do _______ and you'll be right as rain''. It's a ''Psh, back in my day, it was called being (lazy, human, sad, out of control)." Mental health is often met with severity or disbelief instead of compassion.

Many drug users are using because they have underlying issues. When I was a night shift tech, I don't think I ever saw a person come through the door with police or of their own free will as a ''detox'' patient that wasn't diagnosed with something more : Depression/bipolar, ADHD, Anxiety Disorders, or Schizo. People often use substances, cultivate addictions to help them cope with what they couldn't otherwise handle. Did anyone realise that adult ADHD people usually end up self-medicating if they're not found and put on something by a doctor to help curb the symptoms?

Cops seem to, in my experiences, automatically treat all drug users the same way. Once they hear there are drugs involved, the entire concept of empathy goes right out the window. When they receive training (40 hours of training) on how to deal with mental illnesses, addiction isn't usually stressed like depression/schizophrenia/autism/adhd/anxiety disorders. The cop isn't really equipped properly to handle these things in the first place, and there's no lack of personal bias that gets in the way when it comes to debated topics such as drug use.

I don't know if there's a particularly good way to handle all this, but I know for sure that the way we are going doesn't work.. but neither will decriminalising it completely, in my opinion.
Interwoven links are interesting tidbits of data, along with a useful TedTalk

if you ever happen on someone who abuses twinkies the way that a drug addict abuses drugs you will find that twinkies are pretty damn dangerous too lol

OB1Shinobi wrote: if you ever happen on someone who abuses twinkies the way that a drug addict abuses drugs you will find that twinkies are pretty damn dangerous too lol

Sugar being one of the most addictive substances, of which twinkies have in abundance.