The disease of politcal correctness

Manu wrote: In a different topic, someone posted a response that some perceived to be mysogynistic, even though the context did not imply it at all, and it certainly was not stated explicitly.

I've seen these kind of things happen before, where someone is attacked or "called out" for posting an offensive remark, even when no offense was intended, nor implied. I understand that most who come to this Temple arrive with an expectation of a peaceful environment where harmony can be had. But when did respectful conversation get trumped by politcal correctness? In the media and offline it happens a lot too, people are more concerned over not saying something that might be perceived as an offense by someome else, so the natural flow of respectful conversation turns into walking on eggshells and completely screws it up.

I would expect that in a place where growth is promoted criticism would be encouraged (as long as it is respectful), so I would leave any political correctness out the door.

Why is political correctness so prevalent in society nowadays? Is it justified? Do we really want it at TotJO?

well its a balance isnt it?
at one end of the spectrum are people who are full of poison and want to vent that and aim it anyone they can, and every interaction is really an opportunity for them to spew venom

but on the other end are people who are so sensitive that they would let someones whole face fall off before telling them to clean their teeth, or let themselves be ground into dust rather than speak up on their own behalf

and of course some people just speak in a gruff and crass manner

so you do have to be able to say and speak about uncomfortable things, and you have to be grown enough to allow others to speak even in ways you yourself might not

and some bit of SUBVERSIVENESS is necessary to keep order from turning into tyranny - thats how it happens isnt it?
order that is never effectively challenged and never openly criticized, turns, eventually, into oppression

doesnt matter what context, large or small

so if you value the system youre in, you need to respect the order of that system, yes, otherwise it descends into chaos

but you also have to be ready to say the things that people dont like and to point to the incidents that people want to ignore and be able to push uncomfortable issues from time to time

so its basically an issue of sorting out signal from noise on a case by case basis, and understanding that a message may contain both - the message is not worthless just because it is partially noise, but if its ALL noise then it is worthless, as a message at least, and so we need filters to keep the noise in check

because if its allowed, there will be people who will send ALL-NOISE messages on a regular basis, and that gunks up the system: its an indicator that the system has broken down or is breaking down

i would point out that ALL-NOISE messages are only worthless in the context of the ideas they seem to be advocating, they are very valuable to the system overall in the sense that they do indicate an area where something is going wrong, or could be going better, just not in the way the person sending the message thinks

in the USA i have seen many cases of people complaining about PC where i felt it was more an issue of that they were in the habit of using hateful language, and being able to get away with that, and often the hate itself was the whole message

and now society has made the case that there is a line of cordiality that has to be respected, and this is a line some folks are not used to noticing

and sometimes such folks get angry and yell "political correctness is wrong"

well theres only so much i can say, because i have my own difficulties with the lines sometimes too

but i can say this: if bill oreilly and an coulter have something valuable to add to the discussion then i am happy to hear them out

but i dont feel bad that they arent going to be allowed to use publicly the slurs that i imagine them to use in private

When people ask me to be polite, the revolutionary frenchman in me wants to guillotine them with the rest of the genteels who invented this ridiculous thing.

from wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politeness)

History

During the Enlightenment era, a self-conscious process of the imposition of polite norms and behaviours became a symbol of being a genteel member of the upper class. Upwardly mobile middle class bourgeoisie increasingly tried to identify themselves with the elite through their adopted artistic preferences and their standards of behaviour. They became preoccupied with precise rules of etiquette, such as when to show emotion, the art of elegant dress and graceful conversation and how to act courteously, especially with women.

When you realize your friends are being polite with you, you also discover they are not your friends.

ren wrote: When people ask me to be polite, the revolutionary frenchman in me wants to guillotine them with the rest of the genteels who invented this ridiculous thing.

from wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politeness)

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That was from 1620-1789. I'm sure you'll say it still applies but society is much different now. Besides I think you're exaggerating a little bit for impact?

I sort of see being polite as the neutral ground of negotiating a platform for developing a relationship. It's a passive form of learning which maintains a sensitivity to allow understanding each other to be built up faster. As it's the sensitivity to each other which underlies the strongest and most useful relationships IMO.

As a result , being polite reduces the chance of creating counterproductive interactions by avoiding making confronting assumptions too quickly and spending that time being confused, when instead it ideally should be about understanding and growth. So being polite IMO is efficient in this purpose of building understanding, and therefore the most useful thing to facilitate its own demise - because its purpose is to allow a deeper functional connection which would then replace 'being polite'. So if you don't like being polite, don't stop being polite, just get better at it.

Another way to look at it is, the best way to start physical exercise is to look at how injury rehabilitation re-introduces capability to an area. The worse thing you can do as an athlete is injure yourself, because it interrupts training and introduces a structural weakness which might limit your original potential going into the future. So in relationship terms, behaviour, in the same way it would seem to be better to build a solid/deep relationship slowly, then a fleeting/shallow one fast.

Rickie wrote:

ren wrote: When people ask me to be polite, the revolutionary frenchman in me wants to guillotine them with the rest of the genteels who invented this ridiculous thing.

from wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politeness)

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That was from 1620-1789. I'm sure you'll say it still applies but society is much different now. Besides I think you're exaggerating a little bit for impact?

In what way is society any different today? If anything, it has become worse. Everyday groups of people who think they are and know better use our governments to create more laws which increasingly rule every minute aspects of our lives... Or plain old mob justice. Those people who go out of their way to cause other people to lose their jobs and such because they don't agree? They don't want to meet me.

There is a theory I heard of, that amount of violence in society stays permanent. Only, it's explicit in times of war, and implicit (like made at home / psychological / etc.) at other times.

I don't see purpose of Jedi as a way to conquer violence.

Just to create a breakwater.

[/quote] In what way is society any different today? If anything, it has become worse. Everyday groups of people who think they are and know better use our governments to create more laws which increasingly rule every minute aspects of our lives... Or plain old mob justice. Those people who go out of their way to cause other people to lose their jobs and such because they don't agree? They don't want to meet me.[/quote]

I know we won't agree on this. I see the glass more than half full. That's me. You are you. Peace man. Be happy.