Gun ban

I'd very much like to hear everyone's opinions on all the gun law drama in the news. Should we ban or submit weapons? Why? Why not?

Carrying guns should be illegal unless your jobs makes it necessary, buying them shouldn't. But buying should involve extensive background checks. All guns should be registered centrally and gun permits should be revoked instantly if the conditions for owning one aren't met anymore. Certain groups of people should be completely banned from owning guns.

We have that system here and very low gun crime, despite the fact that more than 3 million guns are in private homes (we have a population of 8 million) - seems to be working.

Guns should be regarded as recreational / sports instruments and any other use should be prevented by all means necessary.

But that's just my opinion

No guns means more knives. It makes no real difference. Crimes with guns are more bloody, crimes with knives are less. It does not change the fact that a crime is a crime. Results like unarmed raid in the middle of the night can be as traumatic as an armed raid during the day. Is a physical trauma worse than a mental one? To say that one can always get a gun with a 3d printer, if there is truly desire for, no one can escape it. If one would live in the wild, between bears, should there be need to have a job to own a gun? Or a heavy check? Can the person still own his gun when moving to a city or more dense populated area, with less bears, would be a different story.

When a country allows guns, it will be more easy to smuggle them to a city. I would say that banning fire arms is no solution. Though looking in one his records might help. The true problem with owning guns in America comes from the big difference in environment that America knows.
Switzerland does not have that big difference in environment, so it is not possible to compare the problems of Switzerland with America with all respect for your country.

I do agree that owning a gun has responsibilities, and it should be dependable on environment. It is unavoidable to have problems if a country has multiple environments, be in a forest with bears without self protection is seeking for death.

~ Aqua

Assuming you are referencing the States, guns are another one of those parts of the inconvenient Constitutional Liberterianism. The Founding Fathers only banded together to fight British micromanaging off, and so the States are left with a government based on the idea that citizens can do whatever they want so long as it doesn't infringe on anyone else's freedoms.
I believe that guns will not go away due to the stubborn mid-west-south-texasness of a large part of the population. Instead, I think that every conscious citizen ought to learn gun safety, even if they do not own or carry a gun. Open carry is honestly just asking for trouble, but concealed carry I believe is a way for properly trained citizens to protect themselves, their capital, and those around them.
TlDr: Ignorance kills: yes I'm looking both at the sloppy rednecks and Carolyn McCarthy of shoulder thing that goes up infamy.

Some recent threads of relevance;
https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-discussions/112364-a-poll-on-us-gun-ownership-and-so-forth?limitstart=0&start=10#212210
https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-discussions/112336-tactical-experts-destroy-the-nra-s-heroic-gunslinger-fantasy?limitstart=0&start=60#211841

Too many guns in the US to do much about it now IMO. Plus as mentioned above they can be printed off with emerging desktop manufacturing technology. The Police will just have to keep a high level of militarization to counter and maintain a capability edge on it, and surveillance and security in certain places will have to increase to enable timely response to emerging threats as proliferation continues along with increasing population densities. All just my opinion.

They can expand backgound checks all they want and there isn't anything wrong with that. They can have psychologists/psychiatrists share information resulting a small amount people not being able to purchase legally and there isn't anything wrong with that - except for recently they've come up with the idea that climate change denial is a mental illness, or that new opposition to authority autism style mental disorder. Also they could propose anyone receiving money or is on disabilities shouldn't be able to own a firearm and come up with other petty ways to restrict people from owning guns.

That whole "gun show loophole" sure that's not too bad to close because yes in their eyes it's horrible to have people selliing some of their guns to other people without a background check. Basically the background check creates a registry, and time after time in history in every country it happened, down the line that registry turned into a list for confiscation - as much as the president wants to get on tv with his fake tears and then also dismiss conspiracy theories. There are plenty of politicians who expressed their belief no one except the police and military should own guns, have fun with that Schindler's List dystopia.

At face value it all appears to be common sense approaches, but as for outright bans and restrictions, I think it just goes against American tradition and could never happen peacefully. Some really funky ideologies floating around in the heads of politicians and their puppetmasters whom would only be able to get away with things if Americans were disarmed. As much as everyone wants to set aside a "colonial" document, the Constitution, it's still relevant today in it's entirety and a solid defense and approach for dealing with most of the issues the US faces today, as do the ideas of it's writers - but even what I'm writing here would probably be seen as some form of mental illness. The 2A is for more than just hunting and defense, it's also a last resort measure to restore an out of control government which in many cases is totally out of control and that's why all this gun control stuff is being pushed because all the statistics say gun crime is down and has been going down for awhile now. If they really cared about mass shootings at schools and large public gatherings, maybe they should have more security, their solutions are not even dealing with the problems we have (not just violence but across the board).

Even in the UK or Australia if you want a handgun or even an "assault weapon" they're right there on the street waiting for you to buy. Don't get me wrong, I'm for background checks and the like. I'm in CA and I've gone through background checks, getting firearm safety certificates, registration, restricted from owning "assault weapons" and "high capacity magazines" due to state law. I think it should be left up to the states to decide their gun control measures, but advocating states rights is also considered another mental illness even though in law the states DO have the rights and can make up their mind about almost EVERYTHING but the Feds have usurped a lot through the commerce clause and federal funding.

Aqua wrote: No guns means more knives. It makes no real difference.

Psychologically, that makes one heck of a difference. Being able to kill someone with a knife requires a degree of psychopathology which massively exceeds that necessary in gun use.

The same goes for suicides - while knives are omnipresent in every household, the number of people killing themselves with them is diminutive.

And even if knife crime were to rise: it's simply not possible to kill a larger number of people with a knife.

Cyan Sarden wrote: And even if knife crime were to rise: it's simply not possible to kill a larger number of people with a knife.

That is "simply" not true. Research Mass Stabbings. It happens more than you think and sometimes exceeds more deaths than mass shootings. Knives are small, easier to carry, SILENT, and just as deadly. In fact they are easier to use than guns.

It dosn't matter the weapon. Be it guns, Knives of a baseball bat. If the person is intent on killing a bunch of people. They can and will achieve it. Ban's won't solve mental problems.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-26402367

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Regional_High_School_stabbing

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-crime-murder-idUSKBN0JX09620141219

Instead, I think that every conscious citizen ought to learn gun safety, even if they do not own or carry a gun.

I recall a council meeting (not here at the temple) discussing standards of Jedi Knights. I had said that all Knights (American) should take Conceal Carry courses even if they don't carry or own guns themselves. The process of learning to carry concealed not only teaches the Knight about the Gun's, and the laws, but how to properly use them.

It got vehemently denied, sadly.

Cyan Sarden wrote:

Aqua wrote: No guns means more knives. It makes no real difference.

Psychologically, that makes one heck of a difference. Being able to kill someone with a knife requires a degree of psychopathology which massively exceeds that necessary in gun use.

The same goes for suicides - while knives are omnipresent in every household, the number of people killing themselves with them is diminutive.

And even if knife crime were to rise: it's simply not possible to kill a larger number of people with a knife.

I admire how good people can adapt to a situation. In japan it was common to cut yourself open with seppuku. In ancient times almost all people who killed used knives or swords.. Those people did not have a degree of psychopath, killing with a knives is as easy as a gun. It depends on what one is familiar with, if they only have knives, they will not know better..

There is no difference in killing, it all will give the same result. And if some one cant use a gun, they will seek other ways.

And even if knife crime were to rise: it's simply not possible to kill a larger number of people with a knife.

Then they will pick a sword, or a Sai if they have the skill.. .. I must admit that a knife is no mach to a gun. But there are options, a smart person would not pick a fight against multiple foes using a knife when they can make bombs..

Kitsu Tails wrote:

Cyan Sarden wrote: And even if knife crime were to rise: it's simply not possible to kill a larger number of people with a knife.

That is "simply" not true. Research Mass Stabbings. It happens more than you think and sometimes exceeds more deaths than mass shootings. Knives are small, easier to carry, SILENT, and just as deadly. In fact they are easier to use than guns.

It dosn't matter the weapon. Be it guns, Knives of a baseball bat. If the person is intent on killing a bunch of people. They can and will achieve it. Ban's won't solve mental problems.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-26402367

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Regional_High_School_stabbing

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-crime-murder-idUSKBN0JX09620141219

Instead, I think that every conscious citizen ought to learn gun safety, even if they do not own or carry a gun.

I recall a council meeting (not here at the temple) discussing standards of Jedi Knights. I had said that all Knights (American) should take Conceal Carry courses even if they don't carry or own guns themselves. The process of learning to carry concealed not only teaches the Knight about the Gun's, and the laws, but how to properly use them.

It got vehemently denied, sadly.

We are in constant debate about this as teachers. What do we do? Schools are weapon free zones and seem to be a favorite target. Even the Amish are not immune from school shootings. While I was in one of my education college classes we asked this very question. I responded that we should have some type of combat training. Everyone was very appalled. I suggested that we need to be smarter about this. Even a fire extinguisher can be used to deter someone for a few moments which could be the very few needed to save lives. One of my instructors talked about having to wear a bullet proof vest while watching students get on the buses after school let out in a very bad inner city area.

I am a hunter, a gun owner and a responsible citizen. At least I hope so. Guns have been part of my entire life. They are another tool I use while farming, when I harvest meat for my family or if I have to humanely dispatch livestock. I usually avoid these conversations because gun ownership like so many other things are so easily misconstrued. However I am in complete agreement with Kit.

Funny if it was a lightsaber we were talking about folks carrying this would be a different conversation. Yet isn't a lightsaber a dangerous weapon and in the hands of someone who is not trained or of an unsound mind can cause tremoudous devastation. Using the movies as a reference, when Anakin slaughtered everyone in the temple including children no one blamed the lightsaber.....

We need to talk about mental health and while yes I have to usually wait 20 minutes to buy a rifle as a background check is run I would be fine with even more stringent rules. I have nothing to hide, nor anything that I have to have immediately.