War - Does the End Justify the Means?

Entropist wrote:

Brenna wrote: [Reacher has explained it far better than I could!

well you can wait for others to speak on your behalf but that's not your experience or rationale

Brenna wrote: the option that would ensure either my survival, the protection of others or the fastest way to end or prevent further conflict.

fastest doesn't mean most justified, only means within capability

Brenna wrote: Violence is not the first choice, because that is the philosophy we practice, but when its the appropriate choice in a set of circumstances, I do not hesitate.

violence is never appropriate, but I'd like to gauge where you assume violence is appropriate

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No its not my experience or rational, nor was it meant to be a substitute for it. He simply explained the concept more eloquently than I.

You'll also notice I've not weighed in on the idea of it being justified, as that is a discussion far beyond simply being about war but about a whole system of ethics and morals. I dont pretend to be nearly clever enough to make a definitive call on that.

My contribution is simply that I do not agree with the statement about it being an intelectual failure.

Im curious about your own experience. What has prompted you to the statements you've made in the previous post?

CruzJ wrote: I do not pass judgement based on few - correcting a sentence

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What was it you meant here then?

CruzJ wrote: You have Muslims who say it is a religion of peace but I see the opposite....

I mean simply that in the U.S you see peaceful Muslims. Muslims in other Country's are not all peaceful. There is a few peacefully. I have seen nightmarish pictures of women being beheaded just because she looked at someone. As well I can not understand how is justifiable to kill people because they do not follow their view. Right now scores of shiatte Muslim are being slaughtered by the thousands. I simple see the opposite of peace in this religion. Real Christians belive in peace and accepting others. Thats what I mean Here in the U.S people pass an American View on Things but do not look at the big picture. I am a history student we learn to look at both sides of the story not just one. I do not judge others I judge events. RIGHT or Wrong FDR, locked up Japanese Americans in fear of attack after thousands died in Pearl Harbor. How many could have died if this ever happen. We have to open our minds to become agents of peace and call things sometimes as they should. This is just my opinion.

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CruzJ wrote: I mean simply that in the U.S you see peaceful Muslims. Muslims in other Country's are not all peaceful. There is a few peacefully. I have seen nightmarish pictures of women being beheaded just because she looked at someone. As well I can not understand how is justifiable to kill people because they do not follow their view. Right now scores of shiatte Muslim are being slaughtered by the thousands. I simple see the opposite of peace in this religion. Real Christians belive in peace and accepting others. Thats what I mean Here in the U.S people pass an American View on Things but do not look at the big picture. I am a history student we learn to look at both sides of the story not just one. I do not judge others I judge events. RIGHT or Wrong FDR, locked up Japanese Americans in fear of attack after thousands died in Pearl Harbor. How many could have died if this ever happen. We have to open our minds to become agents of peace and call things sometimes as they should. This is just my opinion.

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http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/22/africa/kenya-bus-attack-al-shabaab-muslim-christians/

You are being SUPER general about things. Do you KNOW any Muslims in other countries? I've met some. They're people just like me. There are extremists in every religion. Westboro Baptist Church comes to mind.

Serve in the Army see what soldiers see. As well you want to twist my words fine I know there's good Muslims and I am being general because I do not judge others I judge the events.

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CruzJ wrote: Serve in the Army see what soldiers see. As well you want to twist my words fine I know there's good Muslims and I am being general because I do not judge others I judge the events.

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haha I love your assumptions. I'm currently serving active duty US Air Force and am hitting my 11 year mark next month. I have deployed twice, in support of OIF and OEF. Tell me again about what I'm suppose to be seeing?

I'm just trying to understand your words, they're very contradicting and I was giving you a chance to explain yourself.

I think we should simply agree to disagree and end it there

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CruzJ wrote: RIGHT or Wrong FDR, locked up Japanese Americans in fear of attack after thousands died in Pearl Harbor. How many could have died if this ever happen.

Likely none. After the war it was found that the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII had no basis in sound "military conditions," but was instead motivated by "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership." There was also not a single instance of Japanese American espionage or subversion, attempted or otherwise, on U.S. soil during the war.

It pretty much says everything that three successive U.S. presidential administrations (Carter, Reagan and Bush) were each willing to admit wrongdoing and make amends for this - it was not exactly America's finest hour. Needless to say, using the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII as an example of how we should act toward this era's political/media bogeyman is probably not the best idea.

Adi Vas wrote: Needless to say, using the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII as an example of how we should act toward this era's political/media bogeyman is probably not the best idea.

it does provide an excellent opportunity to demonstrate that rash, dehumanizing decisions, based on fears and prejudices and assumptions, have a tendency to be very, very wrong

"do the ends justify the means?" is a case by case evaluation

sometimes they do and sometimes they dont

i would say more often than not they havent

but in the first video we address the nazi regime - the world responded and a terrible war unfolded, but hitler was not going to be reasoned with and was not open to negotiation

eventually he was defeated and i speak english today instead of german

the second video speaks of darfur, where no one intervened, and the violence never stopped

"The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing"
E. Burke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSzejCWXKhA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-U5BDLo4Ws